Betts/toler 58 refin for sale?

[marshall1987]

so you're saying Duane's goldtop, which has been refin'd, has no provenance back to Duane any longer and is just a plain ole' '57 GT like any other refin?

???? :dang

Actually I said something completely different. What guitar exactly are you referring to?

 

[abalonevintage]

I'll never understand the desire of some people who would pay a huge premium for a celebrity-owned instrument, a premium mostly based on the the fact that it IS a celebrity-owned instrument, and then destroy that premium value that they paid for by refinishing it. If they buy it, they are certainly entitled to do whatever they want with it BUT why would you devalue the thing you just paid extra for??

In this case, we are talking about an iconic instrument that appears in numerous photos and videos ~in it's current refin'd state~ and IMO destroying that to make it just another repaired-neck, repeatedly-refin'd Goldtop.

People talked about restoring/refinning Snowy White's Goldtop - really?? :ganz Should the owner of a certain browntop Standard refin it to gold because that is what it would have had normally?

I don't mean to stir up this debate in this thread - somebody can start a new thread if they want to - I'm just saying... I don't understand this concept of refinishing celebrity guitars.

:salude

It has already been refinished.....and rather unattractively. It wouldn't destroy the value to me...but then again, I wouldn't price that one in the stratosphere either. :jim

 

[sikoniko]

???? :dang

Actually I said something completely different. What guitar exactly are you referring to?

I'm using Duane's GT as an analogy to this GT to show precedent - kind of ironic they share this trait coming from the same band.

 

[2manyGuitars]

The deal is, if this were just a '50s Goldtop with a refin and a neck repair, It would be worth (I have no idea) 30 grand? After a Historic Makeover to make it a Goldtop again, it would likely be worth more.

If you did pay the $175,000 asking price, you are attaching a considerable amount of value to the history and provenance of this particular instrument. Putting it back to its original state or even giving it the "live at the Fillmore" treatment would remove a good chunk of that history and would devalue it as a "rockstar guitar".

I get the argument that it's just another vintage guitar and a resto-mod (to use a car analogy) would probably improve it but then you wouldn't pay the extremely inflated price for it. You'd find another diamond in the rough for a fraction of the price.

 

[JBLPplayer]

Just like Surf and Turf at Red Lobster: Market Price... An Allman Bro's guy who had to have it might go that high for it. I for one never get overly excited about celebrity attachment to an instrument. Just ask Jim Singleton. Ain't gonna make me play like Dickey or Dan. It Will be interesting to see how it pans out. Dangerous Dad was a hell of a player and a super nice guy.
Joe B

 

[T.Allen]

Just like Surf and Turf at Red Lobster: Market Price...

Your analogies crack me up! :laugh2:

 

[sikoniko]

Just like Surf and Turf at Red Lobster: Market Price... An Allman Bro's guy who had to have it might go that high for it. I for one never get overly excited about celebrity attachment to an instrument. Just ask Jim Singleton. Ain't gonna make me play like Dickey or Dan. It Will be interesting to see how it pans out. Dangerous Dad was a hell of a player and a super nice guy.
Joe B

I agree here with value... whatever someone is willing to pay for it...and how badly the current owner wants to sell it. perhaps he/she doesn't want to sell it... but that is the "money talks" number.

 

[sikoniko]

Putting it back to its original state or even giving it the "live at the Fillmore" treatment would remove a good chunk of that history and would devalue it as a "rockstar guitar".

I get the argument that it's just another vintage guitar and a resto-mod (to use a car analogy) would probably improve it but then you wouldn't pay the extremely inflated price for it. You'd find another diamond in the rough for a fraction of the price.

possibly, but who are those guys that had it after Dickie? never heard of them... and probably a smaller market than the Betts connection. so for those other guys, as good as they may be, to add value to the guitar is a small group of people, relatively. and to be quite honest with you, until I started reading these boards, the allman brothers band was just another band like the doobie brothers to me... someone i didn't mind listening to on the radio, but not something i was going to run out and memorize... there is a lot of music out there...

 

[abalonevintage]

I for one never get overly excited about celebrity attachment to an instrument. Just ask Jim Singleton.

Joe B

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

 

[Tom Wittrock]

Dangerous Dad was a hell of a player and a super nice guy.
Joe B

I assume this was a typo, but a nice one. :ganz
:salude

 

[2manyGuitars]

I for one never get overly excited about celebrity attachment to an instrument.

Says the guy with nothing but celebrity owned instruments.

 

[jimmi]

Just like Surf and Turf at Red Lobster: Market Price... An Allman Bro's guy who had to have it might go that high for it. I for one never get overly excited about celebrity attachment to an instrument. Just ask Jim Singleton. Ain't gonna make me play like Dickey or Dan. It Will be interesting to see how it pans out. Dangerous Dad was a hell of a player and a super nice guy.
Joe B

Betts is also a hell of a player but probably not as nice a guy. Still, the fact it is one of the Fillmore East guitars lends it a status above what it would be otherwise. It isn't that it was celebrity owned but that it was a primary instrument used on one the iconic albums. It is one a a couple played on a hugely influential album and the bands biggest triumph. not going to make you play like either one of them but it is still an iconic gutiar with a history other than being one made in 58

it has a history with Dicky after the refin as he still used it after that. Refinishing it would be like putting Klusons back on Pages number one.

.

 

[chuckNC]

I don't know what the guitar should sell for. Surely anybody who does buy it, at whatever price, has the right to do what they want with it. Even the Viking thing. :laugh2: But I'd like to see it go to somebody who likes it for what it is and wants to keep it that way.

Like the refin or not, it's part of the history of the guitar at this point. Even if it's not as iconic as Page's #1 this guitar is at least, um, semi-iconic. Though not a proper burst, it's also not a goldtop anymore. It's become its own thing. There are original finish goldtops out there if that's what someone wants.

 

[jimmi]

possibly, but who are those guys that had it after Dickie? never heard of them... and probably a smaller market than the Betts connection. so for those other guys, as good as they may be, to add value to the guitar is a small group of people, relatively. and to be quite honest with you, until I started reading these boards, the allman brothers band was just another band like the doobie brothers to me... someone i didn't mind listening to on the radio, but not something i was going to run out and memorize... there is a lot of music out there...

Dan Toller was the guitar player they eventually brought in after Duane died. Betts played the slide parts that Duane used to do and Dan played some of the other parts. Dicky gave Dan the guitar after he joined the band and Dan used it while he played with the Allman bros and until he stopped playing with Gregg's solo band when the ABB reformed and they went with Haynes and Betts. He eventually sold it because he needed money (Betts was not happy with him over this).

So it was played by Duane, Betts and Toller...three of the most associated members of the band and was played on their most iconic album.

As to the ABB status as a band, we have talked about this before, your influence lineage is a bit different so they aren't a big and for you but they were hugely influential especially in the south. I hear their songs covered here in Nashville frequently. Last time I saw the Zac Brown band live they covered Whipping Post. Hell, Jessica is used as the theme song for Top Gear, a BBC show.

 

[AliGZero]

Ain't but one way out of this dilemma, boys. Joe's gotta buy it, play the hell out of it and add another musical chapter to this guitar's wonderful history.

 

[JBLPplayer]

I assume this was a typo, but a nice one. :ganz
:salude

Hellava and Dan.... Sorry the IPad at 35,000 feet does weird things. I'm good with technology though. Pre-1963...:dude:

Joe B

PS.. Dan playing that guitar changed my life in 1983. I was 6 and the howl it produced will forever be with me. Those dudes knew Les Pauls....

Back when the sonic quality mattered more than it does now.

 

[JBLPplayer]

Says the guy with nothing but celebrity owned instruments.

I may be mistaking your post.. But I don't own any celebrity owned vintage guitars cept the Terry Reid Telecaster. He is a friend so it's not quite like that either. Plus he has the option to buy it back Vig free at anytime. :2cool

Joe B

 

[JD Simo]

Very interesting thread! I'm a huge fan of the band and know of this guitar well. Wonderful sounding guitar! I agree with my esteemed colleague Joe in that in my mind, I view it in somewhat similar terms to the Snowy White Goldtop as far as value is concerned. Like I said I'm a huge fan, but with all said on the history of the guitar and all that has been done to it (whether by an Icon like Dickey or anyone else for that matter) I feel that the value lies somewhere in the middle of what is being asked and what it would arguably go for without the star connection. I'm curious to see how it goes! Cool, groovy guitar! My 2 cents..

 

[Pinstripephil]

In my heart I'd like to think I would buy this LP for whatever I could get it for, if I had the money. Dickey's playing is it for me. :dude:

I wonder if the current owner might do a Collectors Choice deal with Gibson so I could buy that one?? :salude

 

[j45]

Says the guy with nothing but celebrity owned instruments.

Hmmm. Trying to think of what those may be???? Can you name one or two?