Long Tenon vs Short Tenon?

96 lppp · Nov 23, 2005

I'm stating my experience with historic vs standard LP's and my ear hears a more open and resonant sound with long tenon historics. My $.02, that's all. You anti-historic folks remind me of a band audition where the other guitarist was eye-balling me carrying in Marshall and Fender tube amps and my old echoplex and said why do you need them old tube amps, my Randalls solid state and sounds just fine :bonk If you can't notice a difference in sound & feel then fine, buy a plywood epiphone and stop whining :sour

bluespckr · Nov 23, 2005

Short and to the point: The guitar is just a tool, and one small piece of a bigger picture. It's the guitarist and what he does with that guitar when it's in his hands that makes the biggest difference.

moonpie · Nov 23, 2005

Out of 5 Lesters, I have one Historic and love it.
I also have a couple Pre-historics and a Heritage 80 Standard, and I love them also.

I paid more for the Flametop Reissue and the Heritage 80, both short tenon guitars, than I did for the R7.

Kinda blows the hell out of any theory that I'm trying to justify the high price of the R7 and it's long tenon, no?

Boys and Girls, Lesters start at about $500 used and go up from there. Buy the best one you can afford. If $500 is all you have to spend, buy a used Studio or LP Jr. Maybe an early to mid 80's Studio, complete with binding.

I've got an 82 XR III- $565 on ebay about 6 months back.
Heavy as a tank, but it's got Shaw pups and sounds fantastic.

So, since I've got a cheap Lester that sounds good, should I sell my more expensive ones and tell others here what idiots they are to buy anything but and XR III?

Each of my LPs are different.
The R7 is the finest guitar I've ever played, hands down, but my favorite of the bunch is the H80. I like the look, the feel, the sound.
The neck is very comfortable. It fits my hand better than the R7 or the Reissue with a 60s profile. The workmanship is on par with the R7, and I think the Heritage 80 will appreciate more over the years than the R7. All of these things add up to make it my favorite of the LP corral, even though it has the short tenon.

DopeyJake · Nov 23, 2005

ashbass said:
:troll

Troll? Have you read any of my posts? i don't troll. It's just my opinion. You don't need to put up a stupid emodicon just because you don't agree with me.

Cheburashka · Nov 24, 2005

96 lppp said:
I'm stating my experience with historic vs standard LP's and my ear hears a more open and resonant sound with long tenon historics. My $.02, that's all. You anti-historic folks remind me of a band audition where the other guitarist was eye-balling me carrying in Marshall and Fender tube amps and my old echoplex and said why do you need them old tube amps, my Randalls solid state and sounds just fine :bonk If you can't notice a difference in sound & feel then fine, buy a plywood epiphone and stop whining :sour

You're passing off opinion as expert testimony though, which opens it to rebuttal. Where your arguement falls on its face is in your total lack of proof of the things you assert. What lab did you test the guitars in? how big was your sample size? What equipment did you use to test? What journal did you publish the results in? Was your study peer-reviewed? If you're simply expressing your opinion, you can't use absolutes like "x IS y", you have to qualify it with "I think" or "In my view".

The other possibility is that you over-extended yourself. You're probably very passionate about your really nice guitar, and when given an opportunity to tell people how great it is, you took it, and accidentally shat on everybody else by indirectly implying that their "lesser" standard models are tone-dead logs that barely qualify as musical instruments. You imply this again, by suggesting that we're tone deaf unless we like Historics, and that we wouldn't notice a difference between a Std and a plywood epiphone. If that's not what you're saying, may I suggest that you be more clear in future? :sour :salude :ahem

lefty64 · Nov 24, 2005

I'm just a Standard low life scumbag w/ Long Tenon envy! :bh :wha

honk-squawk-wail · Nov 24, 2005

Cheburashka said:
You're passing off opinion as expert testimony though, which opens it to rebuttal. Where your arguement falls on its face is in your total lack of proof of the things you assert. What lab did you test the guitars in? how big was your sample size? What equipment did you use to test? What journal did you publish the results in? Was your study peer-reviewed? If you're simply expressing your opinion, you can't use absolutes like "x IS y", you have to qualify it with "I think" or "In my view".

The other possibility is that you over-extended yourself. You're probably very passionate about your really nice guitar, and when given an opportunity to tell people how great it is, you took it, and accidentally shat on everybody else by indirectly implying that their "lesser" standard models are tone-dead logs that barely qualify as musical instruments. You imply this again, by suggesting that we're tone deaf unless we like Historics, and that we wouldn't notice a difference between a Std and a plywood epiphone. If that's not what you're saying, may I suggest that you be more clear in future? :sour :salude :ahem

Bingo!

And, if Gibson had originally made short-tenoned LPs in the `50s, and long-tenoned
since `68, probably most tone hounds would be salivating for those original short-tenoned LPs.

Tone is so very subjective.

96 lppp · Nov 24, 2005

Bingo? you do not have 1 number right and you think you have bingo! Your enthusiasm has overriden your common sense. If you can't hear the difference then spare your wallet and buy a short tenon LP. Hell, buy a molded plastic guitar if that floats your boat.

FLICKOFLASH · Nov 24, 2005

Long sticks go .....BoOoM...!!!! little sticks go ......pow....!!! :biggrin: :bonk

Cogswell · Nov 24, 2005

Jeez you guys are right. I can't believe I thought I knew what a good sounding guitar was. Thanks for the enlightenment. You know so much!

D_rifter · Nov 24, 2005

How long is the tenon on Claptons Strat?

jgyn · Nov 24, 2005

D_rifter said:
How long is the tenon on Claptons Strat?

Evidently not long enough.

D_rifter · Nov 24, 2005

jgyn said:
Evidently not long enough.

Thanks for clearing that up.

honk-squawk-wail · Nov 25, 2005

96 lppp said:
Bingo? you do not have 1 number right and you think you have bingo! Your enthusiasm has overriden your common sense. If you can't hear the difference then spare your wallet and buy a short tenon LP. Hell, buy a molded plastic guitar if that floats your boat.

Not one number right? Well, I own a short-tenon '95 Page model that's a copy
of HIS number 1. Is that a good enough number for you?

Btw, early '95 Page
models now occasionally crest $7K, and will appreciate from here much faster than the long-tenoned historics. What are they, hovering around $3.5K? Guess I don't need that plastic geetah you're suggesting.

Btw, the '95 Page sustains for days and days.

bluesjuke · Nov 25, 2005

honk-squawk-wail said:
Bingo!

And, if Gibson had originally made short-tenoned LPs in the `50s, and long-tenoned
since `68, probably most tone hounds would be salivating for those original short-tenoned LPs. Tone is so very subjective.

We more than likely would be saying, " Wow, what an improvement Gibson has made over the years!".

A lot depends on the individual guitar. I have a Standard ('02) that kicks butt. I love my Historics. They are different. Both do their job well. If I had to choose one to keep of course it would be the Historic but let me state that I would have a hard time selling my Standard to buy a fourth Historic. I would like to & have an R6 on my list. My Standard is too good of a guitar for me to not keep though.

honk-squawk-wail · Nov 25, 2005

bluesjuke said:
We more than likely would be saying, " Wow, what an improvement Gibson has made over the years!".

A lot depends on the individual guitar. I have a Standard ('02) that kicks butt. I love my Historics. They are different. Both do their job well. If I had to choose one to keep of course it would be the Historic but let me state that I would have a hard time selling my Standard to buy a fourth Historic. I would like to & have an R6 on my list. My Standard is too good of a guitar for me to not keep though.

Guitar-folk, more often than not, lust after the tools of their particular idols. Page, Green, Allman, Gibbons, Clapton, Perry, etc. They lust said hero's LPs because these are the LPs that helped produce the classic songs of their youth. My point was that had those old recordings been made with short-tenoned guitars, today's players would be lusting those particular models...to try and capture the same tone. That's not a very inventive way to try and produce "one's own" sound, like their heros did. Just the opposite.

I love the fact that fans listen to classic LP recordings done on Neve boards in great studios, with great engineers, bolstered by 2" tape saturation, and then discuss whether Jimmy Page 'top-wrapped' his strings over the stoptail. It's much akin to this whole long-short tenon debate. If all you're doing is strumming these puppies acoustically with your buddies, then that's an area of expertise that I don't personally spend a lot of time caring about.

cheers!

tom wu · Nov 25, 2005

Folks; the last thing we want is our wives read this post and to coin a phrase like..dare I say?
Tenon envy!
So remember what's been said before; -"It's not the size of your tenon but what you do with it that counts."
Tenon-tively speaking. that its.

03LBurst · Nov 25, 2005

tom wu said:
So remember what's been said before; -"It's not the size of your tenon but what you do with it that counts."
Tenon-tively speaking. that its.

Only people with short tenons say that. :lol

honk-squawk-wail · Nov 25, 2005

03LBurst said:
Only people with short tenons say that. :lol

Yes! And keep in mind that 'un-shaved' necks are unsightly in public. A true gentleman compounds his radius!

tom wu · Nov 25, 2005

And by the way..for my 2 cents on whether it makes a difference in the sound, I say it depends on how that tenon joins the body and what type of wood we're talking about.
I've never owned a 58-60, so I'll leave those guitars out of the equasion ( as will most guys in here..when looking to buy their next LP ) But I have had a few histerics, and a couple of 50s LP GTs..so I base my "findings" on those.
In my (short tenon) H-80LP you cannot tell where the neck ends and body begins. It's that tight! As it happens to be my favorite sounding guitar of all time (after I modded it with some 50s 600K pots, a set of old spragues and Tim Whites pickups ) I don't think the tenon thing is that relevant in guitars where the actual join has the "happy smile" just a little too happy. In other words, If it's how the vibration gets passed from neck to body..short or long is not so much a contribuitor as say, tight vs loose joinery.
But that's just my opinion and I could be wrong.
I think also that there are many, many other factors far more important to the tone that the tenon..lest of which is the person holding said tenon and how good a player he or she may be.

Long Tenon vs Short Tenon?

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