Long Tenon vs Short Tenon?

[phil47uk]

And how does the R9 sound in the hands of that Epi player?

Bloody marvelous when they borrow it from some R9 players I have heard...

Phil. :bh

 

[Jeff]

I can't believe this topic still comes up... Hell, Strats have a dinky neck tenon held together with wood screws and we all know of a few songs done by a few players that sound damn good.

If the guitar is good, it's good. Get over it.

Most Historics don't exactly thrill me in the tone department. If they did, how come so many go through MANY to find the right one?

Actually if there is one defining factor to the Historics, IMO, it would be....



















.... hype.

 

[JVIoneyman]

Hype?

Why can you say a historic is hype, but at the same time another person cant say a long neck tenon is better? Double standard maybe?

 

[les strat]

When I bought my Historic, it was on one principle:

Weight.

I was tired of slinging a 11 lb lester. Now I know there are lighter Standard production Les Pauls than that, but why would I pay more for a new Standard than a new R7/R8? :wha

Hey, nothing wrong with standards but price IMO.

From my experience, Historics for the most part have a woodier sound and tend to be bit more consistent in build quality. Not necessarily better sounding. Just different sounding. But honestly, I could care less about trying to convert people to believe Historics are different.

I know.

 

[tom wu]

I'm sure those vintage truss rods probably weight a couple of grams more and were made in a foundry that doesn't exist anymore from a secret alloy

:bug
Now this guy is a troublemaker... :rof :rof :rof :rof

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

:bug
Now this guy is a troublemaker... :rof :rof :rof :rof

If my knob goes to 11 is it louder than your guitar at 10 ??.........:jim :hippy

 

[Cogswell]

A bolt-on maple neck contributes to the distinctive sound of a Stratocaster (or Telecaster) guitar. A mahogany set-neck w/a long tenon contributes to the distinctive sound of a Les Paul guitar.
Why is that so difficult to comprehend? You don't gotta be a brain scientist to see that.

 

[soldano16]

A bolt-on maple neck contributes to the distinctive sound of a Stratocaster (or Telecaster) guitar.

Hey guys - how about we check out the Fender forum and see their threads on the set neck teles and Strats and how they sound different from bolt ons (which is obviously a much bigger difference). I wonder if they have had threads on that subject.

 

[PatentAppliedFor]

 

[DopeyJake]

It's been hunders of years of people trying to reproduce the varnish and design of a strad violin and they never came close. The sad thing is that I know of only one player who was smart enough to put the million dollar strad down and realize that there are even better modern made alternatives at a fraction of the price. He was smart enough to realize that the legend of the strad is just hype just like the long tenon.

 

[55Custom]

Where can I get a Tenon Extension Kit for my '05 Standard? :bug

 

[honk-squawk-wail]

Let's see...I paid $1950. for my used R8 in excellent condition when Standards were marked at $2150..

I paid $2200. out the door for my R7 when Standards were marked at $2199..

I paid $2725. out the door for my R9 335 when USA 335's were marked at $2399..

Didn't seem to cost that much more did it? What did I get for the little extra?

Long tenon
better neck (for my tastes)
pickups I like better
lighter weight
better wood
ABR-1 bridge (which I prefer)
better finish (including hand rubbed nitro)
better balance
better overall tone
lightweight tailpiece
better resale value
Amazing satisfaction

Do I have a Standard? You bet! Do I like it? Yes, very much!
I also have a USA 335 that I like very much as well.

You know I should be playing them instead of wondering why you think it is your mission to bash Historics every chance you get. If you don't want one then don't buy one. It's a fact that Historics are the best guitars that Gibson is currently making & has made for a long time. Not the only good ones but the best for many good reasons.

Maybe next time you go to the Dr. you can tell him his Corvette's overpriced & he should have bought a Chevette for less instead of getting ripped off.

You remind me of another that decided to come on over from another forum to "start trouble "as he posted there before coming here. Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!! I wonder.

Please tell me how you really feel.

I`ve been here since mid `03, and I`m not here to bash historics. This is a discussion between long and short tenon LPs. Just so happens that the historics have long ones. If I give an opinion about pricing of said guitars, then it is just my opinion about what I feel is a fair price for some wood, frets, glue, and man-hours on a relatively mass-produced product. Instead of posting what you paid for your historics, you should have posted the `retail pricing` (like you did with the standards). That was what I was talking about. Not the out-the-door price. You could have purchased those standards for a whole lot less.

Anyway, no need to get hot under the collar. My `95 Page model (my only LP at the moment...I don`t need more than one) has an ABR-1, good wood, nice top, wonderful shaved neck, and a compound radius fretboard that is a dream to play. I won`t even get into the 21 tonal options. I think you and I appreciate similar things.

I appreciate historics. Wouldn`t mind having a nice R9. However, I think they are overpriced, and I have done enough recording to know that there is a whole lot more to what you hear when you press `playback` than tenon length.

Trolling? No way, Jose.

 

[Dave Carpenter]

This is part of something I wrote for another post but I thought it might contribute here also. Then again maybe not.

I don’t understand the debate over long neck tenon or short neck tenon. It is just whether the difference is appreciated or even desirable to each individual consumer. To complicate things each guitar built will sum its materials and construction uniquely producing its own unique sound.

However in the extreme I have seen people compare 30 or more guitars at one time. This type of consumer becomes calibrated. These guys can pass the blindfold test, believe me. There is a guy south of LA who can pass the blindfold test listening to samples over the phone. As these performers find what inspires them they do end up burning very bright for it.

Regardless of tenons and pickups etc. not everybody is into the loudest most acoustically open sounding LP which is more often than not the long neck tenon guitar.

All that matters for stage performance is what is coming through the amplifier and is this guitar inspiring to you to create or play your best. For some styles of playing and music weight relieved LPs, heavier LPs, LPs that have three piece maple necks may suit a player preference better. Don't bet any amount of money that a player hasn't wanted the heaviest LP in the warehouse and once having heard it played acoustically over the telephone only… eagerly starts uttering his Visa number.

There are all kinds of players and all kinds of product on the Gibson line list for everybody. If you will buy it and Gibson can make a profit on it, it seems Gibson makes that model.

With all of that said, generally a connoisseur of LPs, who is into Historic series LPs, can pick them out pretty well, only hearing it acoustically. And many times he only hears it acoustically over the phone. But these people have ears that are very well calibrated. They know what they want. They know how the acoustics of the LP are going to translate through the amplifier.

It seems to me that even those who are not into Historic series are also starting to listen acoustically to their LPs. One guy said, "If it doesn't sound like a ZAK WILDE acoustically, I don't really want to hear about it”.

Long neck tenon guitars are offered for those who want and appreciate what the extra length and size does for them. It does not appear to me that Gibson is creating any shortage of the more affordable models of Les Pauls in order to try and sell the more expensive long neck tenon models. As I see the truth, there are fewer models of long neck tenon guitars this year than last year, but more short neck tenon Les Paul models being made this year over last. Almost every dealer sells more short neck tenon Les Pauls than long neck tenon Les Pauls. It seems to me that the market is driving the manufacture on this one.

I will bow out and let you all have at it. Happy playing whether it is a long or short neck tenon. When the drummer comes in... well that is Phil's line and not for me to steal. Good Luck on resolving this one! :salude

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

As I see the truth, there are fewer models of long neck tenon guitars this year than last year, but more short neck tenon Les Paul models being made this year over last. Almost every dealer sells more short neck tenon Les Pauls than long neck tenon Les Pauls. It seems to me that the market is driving the manufacture on this one.

:salude

fewer long tenon is sold due to a higher prices & short tenon were designed for quick production so more are made each year. Long tenon requires more hands on to fit the neck, one better than a long tenon would be a neck thru body but for a LP design would be very hard to build. the more rigid a neck is the better it sustains & less frequencies lost & that is a fact. Show me a strat that out sustains a LP

 

[bluesjuke]

Originally Posted by Dave Carpenter
It does not appear to me that Gibson is creating any shortage of the more affordable models of Les Pauls in order to try and sell the more expensive long neck tenon models.


That would be sales being the bottom line. Gibson will make models with features that are better because they know there are buyers out there for the higher end products but that is not the bulk of their sales. It's a shame that the higher quality isn't an everyday production item as it used to be.

 

[DaveTV]

A bolt-on maple neck contributes to the distinctive sound of a Stratocaster (or Telecaster) guitar. A mahogany set-neck w/a long tenon contributes to the distinctive sound of a Les Paul guitar.
Why is that so difficult to comprehend? You don't gotta be a brain scientist to see that.

Although it does help if you're a rocket surgeon. :wha

:2lol


:jim

 

[bluesjuke]

Please tell me how you really feel.

I`ve been here since mid `03, and I`m not here to bash historics. This is a discussion between long and short tenon LPs. Just so happens that the historics have long ones. If I give an opinion about pricing of said guitars, then it is just my opinion about what I feel is a fair price for some wood, frets, glue, and man-hours on a relatively mass-produced product. Instead of posting what you paid for your historics, you should have posted the `retail pricing` (like you did with the standards). That was what I was talking about. Not the out-the-door price. You could have purchased those standards for a whole lot less.

Anyway, no need to get hot under the collar. My `95 Page model (my only LP at the moment...I don`t need more than one) has an ABR-1, good wood, nice top, wonderful shaved neck, and a compound radius fretboard that is a dream to play. I won`t even get into the 21 tonal options. I think you and I appreciate similar things.

I appreciate historics. Wouldn`t mind having a nice R9. However, I think they are overpriced, and I have done enough recording to know that there is a whole lot more to what you hear when you press `playback` than tenon length.

Trolling? No way, Jose.

OK I got the Standard for $1800.. I fight for better pricing than most people & am stubborn about it. At the time of the Standard purchase a 'good price was about $1900.-1950.. Regarding your comment,"You could have purchased those Standards for a whole lot less" the same holds true for any Historic. So do you base "Overpriced Historics" on retail or list price? You see that I got my Historics for within hundreds of the Standard. Where's the overpricing?

So the price difference is still negligable & that was the point of my posting prices. I posted marked price on the Standard because I don't know what deal you or anyone else may have made & clearly stated those prices as 'marked prices' so as not to confuse.

Retail as well as list price are mythical number's. Make your best deal.

I don't have a problem with your opinion's or what guitars you choose to purchase or not. However you can state your opinion without using term's that belittle the opinion of other's. (There's a trend if you review) That's where trouble begins & could easily be avoided. Opinion's can be expressed assertively without being aggressive.

 

[D_rifter]

As regards long tenon versus short tenon, I think tendinitis isn't good at all, tinnitus is nasty and a long tennis match is taxing.

A long tendon can also be found in your legs and arms, short tendons in your fingers and toes. The length of the tendons depend on their respective positions.

A short finger tendon repetitively playing with a long or short tenon neck could lead to tendinitis and if the loudness isn't kept at a reasonable volume it may also lead to tinnitus, after which playing a long tennis match may induce bouts of tennis elbow.

In short I would say that a long tenon could be relatively short or long if compared to many long and short tenons, and one should have the tenacity and temerity to ensure that every tendon is tested while testing a tenon for it's shortness or lengtheness provided that tinnutis and tendinitis does not occur during the short or long repetitive tests.

It is well documented.

 

[soldano16]

Show me a strat that out sustains a LP

Interesting point!

 

[soldano16]

the more rigid a neck is the better it sustains & less frequencies lost & that is a fact.

I guess I should have included the sentence above so as not to confuse.