Long Tenon vs Short Tenon?

[Easy Money]

Those pictures have been around forever. Do we know where thay came from or if that is even a picture of a Gibson Les Paul? I just don't believe that Gibson would build a guitar with such a sorry neck joint. I believe I could do better with a chisel and a pocket knife. What I don't understand is why Gibson (who probably has folks that monitor sites like this) has not responded with pictures of their neck joints to defend their honor. It ain't like neck joint construction is a big industrial secret or anything. If I was Gibson management and somebody was insulting the quality of my company's workmanship, I would go on the offense. Some folks have called that sorry excuse of a neck joint, a rocker joint to help get the right angle on the neck but if that neck was rocked in either direction, the fretboard would not sit all the way down flush on the face of the guitar I think. I believe somebody took that neck off and whittled on it.

 

[Cody]

I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember that the pic IS from Gibson's own campaign to promote the Historic.

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember that the pic IS from Gibson's own campaign to promote the Historic.

explains why they don't have it cut to show the trussrod condem on the historic

 

[55Custom]

a rocker joint to help get the right angle on the neck but if that neck was rocked in either direction, .

I never understood that either. What would be so hard about essentially fitting a square peg in a square hole. I guess furniture companies aren't disclosing the secret process.

"Hey Fred! I can't use this sophisticated machinery to cut the tenon with that angle that's supposed to fit the bottom of the mortise." :nut
"Of course you can't, Joe. There's no way to do it! It's impossible." :nut

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

the rocker joint is for quick production ,fitting a tight fit joint requires alot of time

 

[honk-squawk-wail]

I'm calling BS on this. A short tenon and a long tenon are identical functionally. Using an esoteric expression like "musical" to describe an extra inch of wood is the ultimate in pseudo-scientific cork sniffing.

How does a long tenon allow for better control of the feel and tone of notes? This is a property of the player's fingers and ears.

How can sustain be cut off on different parts of the neck by the shorter tenon? This is probably more an issue of a badly set up guitar, needing a truss rod adjustment or fret work.

How does the tenon affect frequency cutoff? A Stradivarius has a super short tenon, yet somehow manages to lay claim to the best "tone" in the violin world.

How does a short tenon make notes sound flat and compressed? It sounds more like an issue of dead strings. Seriously.

Be carefull! Whenever one dives into the `anti-historic` pond the thread eventually gets snuffed! Corporate-sponsored censorship? I wonder.

Btw, I agree! Old wood, hide glue, long tenons. Hogwash.

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

Be carefull! Whenever one dives into the `anti-historic` pond the thread eventually gets snuffed! Corporate-sponsored censorship? I wonder.

Btw, I agree! Old wood, hide glue, long tenons. Hogwash.

maybe its just hurt bruised ego's on a power trip shame the corperates can't get their replica right but Joe Smoe can....Hide glue ( have you seen LP tops that have fallen off or nearly there I have) we now have Gorilla glue

 

[Cogswell]

Be carefull! Whenever one dives into the `anti-historic` pond the thread eventually gets snuffed! Corporate-sponsored censorship? I wonder.

Btw, I agree! Old wood, hide glue, long tenons. Hogwash.

That's just a moronic statement.
"Yeah, I'm gettin' a free set o' strings from Henry 'cause I deleted another thread!
w00t!"

 

[ashbass]

Be carefull! Whenever one dives into the `anti-historic` pond the thread eventually gets snuffed! Corporate-sponsored censorship? I wonder.

Btw, I agree! Old wood, hide glue, long tenons. Hogwash.

If you can't, or won't, back up your statements with facts or examples from your own experience then don't talk. It only makes you look foolish. This is true of the thread snuffing comment (joke?) and especially of the hogwash bit.

 

[ashbass]

I just wonder if the long tenon is so much better, why don't they do the Standards like that? What's the big deal.

Seems like a marketing thing to me. A similar question used to be asked often in the Epiphone forums. "If the electronics in the Epi are so bad, why don't they do the Epi's like the Gibsons?" Answer could be that 'because then the Epi would be closer to being a Gibson' and might hurt the sales of our Gibsons. The tenon answer could follow, 'because then the standards would be closer to being historics' and that might hurt the sales of our historics.

Could be.

 

[honk-squawk-wail]

If you can't, or won't, back up your statements with facts or examples from your own experience then don't talk. It only makes you look foolish. This is true of the thread snuffing comment (joke?) and especially of the hogwash bit.

To Cogswell and ashbass; yes, a joke about the corporate-sponsored censorship, of course. However, it happens sometimes that when a thread here touches on a theme that is either anti-historic, or anti-golden-grail `59 burst, or unpopular, that thread gets pulled before long. For a case in point, there was a thread lately regarding the reason for relicing a Les Paul. Some of the members, myself included, had some unflattering comments regarding such work and the thread was closed. No vulgarity, no verbal fist-fighting, just an interesting topic about why such guitars are made and liked. Why it was closed, I have no idea. Does every thread take up a lot of server space?

I thought the thread had merit, and found its closing interesting. That`s all.

 

[Cogswell]

That thread went on for pages & pages until it became this big, bloated mass & there was nothing more to contribute to it but the beratement of other forum members that happen to like aged guitars. You have no clue as to why it was closed?
Give me a break

 

[honk-squawk-wail]

That thread went on for pages & pages until it became this big, bloated mass & there was nothing more to contribute to it but the beratement of other forum members that happen to like aged guitars. You have no clue as to why it was closed?
Give me a break

Fair enough. However, that surely wasn`t the first thread here to go on for days tossing back and forth various opinions on a subject. I surely didn`t read any verbal volleys that were out of the ordinary, and that thread may have developed in an interesting direction had it been given time.

No biggie.

Ashbass; as far as my `hogwash` statement... personally I just don`t buy into the `can`t beat a `59 LP` opinions that are often written here. What`s to back up? I have tone opinions...and so do others.

 

[hoss]

A "T-thread", hehehe.

I might remind that there are regular discussions here, if some legendary recordings by Eric Clapton or Billy Gibbons feature an SG vs. ES or a Tele vs. Les Paul.
What the f*ck does this tell us? :jim

Yes, you notice a difference if you A-B two guitars, but not anything else.

 

[Cogswell]

."...that thread may have developed in an interesting direction had it been given time."
Good grief that thing was six pages already. My hard drive listed to one side every time I opened it LOL

 

[moonpie]

:lol :lol

Keep up the good work, Cogs la

 

[mr Fix]

Someone had to do it

I was surprised to see how much better the long tenon seemed to fit. Looks like a bi difference in attention to detail :bug

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

To Cogswell and ashbass; yes, a joke about the corporate-sponsored censorship, of course. However, it happens sometimes that when a thread here touches on a theme that is either anti-historic, or anti-golden-grail `59 burst, or unpopular, that thread gets pulled before long. For a case in point, there was a thread lately regarding the reason for relicing a Les Paul. Some of the members, myself included, had some unflattering comments regarding such work and the thread was closed. No vulgarity, no verbal fist-fighting, just an interesting topic about why such guitars are made and liked. Why it was closed, I have no idea. Does every thread take up a lot of server space?

I thought the thread had merit, and found its closing interesting. That`s all.

I agree that was BS for closing that thread .what too much discussion that what the forum is for...think someone got itchy fingers on the trigger a little too much

 

[Cogswell]

whatever

 

[bluespckr]

It's not how long you make it, it's how you make it long.

Okay, sorry for the cliche, but . . . no I'm not.

You know, all I'm going to say is that I'll bet there are or have been a bunch of great guitar slingers out there who make incredible sounds on guitars that some of us would consider a POS because it doesn't have this or that, or whatever. When you pick up a guitar and play it, it either speaks to you or it doesn't. A good player will make almost anything work --- it's all in his hands and fingers. Long tenon, short tenon, or John Lennon (kinda rhymes), I really could give a crap. There's a lot more to the formula of what makes a good guitar good than the size of its . . .