The definitive account of why some 59s are "darkburst"

[BCR/Greg]

I have heard several plausible theories.

Who has FACTS?

 

[CDaughtry]

I don't have any specific facts, but I do have an observation that may shed some light on it. At one time, I owned 9 2312 and 9 2314. Both were darkbursts. 9 2312 had a very pronounced mineral streak in it that was nicely hidden by the dark spray on the perimeter of the guitar. 9 2314 had no such streak. However, I'm sure they had some dark spray left over and didn't want to waste it, so 9 2314 was sprayed as well. I've never seen 9 2313, but if I was a betting man, I'd bet that one is a darkburst as well.:jim

 

[BCR/Greg]

A friend whose father worked at Gibson told me that one of the older spray guys hated cherryburst, and loaded a gun for a 335 run and hit a few bodies that were streaked and just sprayed out the gun on first quality guitars.

But it seems that there were two runs of the color.

My brain hurts.

 

[ppgf]

as rich conte would say, they weren't flying around on magic carpets when they were building these guitars. let's face it, bursts were initially one step above student guitars. they weren't even the top of their own model (les paul) range.

gibson was a company that encouraged practical utilization of employees and materials.

I don't have any specific facts, but I do have an observation that may shed some light on it. At one time, I owned 9 2312 and 9 2314. Both were darkbursts. 9 2312 had a very pronounced mineral streak in it that was nicely hidden by the dark spray on the perimeter of the guitar. 9 2314 had no such streak. However, I'm sure they had some dark spray left over and didn't want to waste it, so 9 2314 was sprayed as well. I've never seen 9 2313, but if I was a betting man, I'd bet that one is a darkburst as well.:jim

 

[Tom Wittrock]

I think BigAl has posted about this in the past. Seems he got some info from a former Gibson factory worker.
Hopefully he will chime in on this thread.

 

[Vic DaPra]

I agree with Charlie....if you look at the bursts in the 9 0900 series ,most of them have retained their "plum" color sunburst...definitely not your typical cherryburst by any stretch...by the time you got to the end of '59, The Gibson cherryburst changed to a very darkburst in the series Charlie mentioned... I firmly believe that was purposely done to hide flaws in the tops. As the years pass and some of these guitars fade a little, you can see what Gibson was trying to cover up..just my opinion.

 

[ppgf]

i agree. let's face it, gibson, if they were sorting figured maple in the "50s, was probably saving their best boards for l5s, super 400s, etc.

I agree with Charlie....if you look at the bursts in the 9 0900 series ,most of them have retained their "plum" color sunburst...definitely not your typical cherryburst by any stretch...by the time you got to the end of '59, The Gibson cherryburst changed to a very darkburst in the series Charlie mentioned... I firmly believe that was purposely done to hide flaws in the tops. As the years pass and some of these guitars fade a little, you can see what Gibson was trying to cover up..just my opinion.

 

[abalonevintage]

The wood for different guitars were pre-dimensioned from their wood supplier to keep costs down.

Les Paul tops were cut from 5/4 lumber...which Gibson apparently had a hard time procuring. So, Les Paul tops were set apart from other guitars that utilized maple.

 

[ppgf]

not intimately familiar with gibson's wood procurement, figured maple grading and subsequent board destinations in the "50s, so i'll plead ignorance.

The wood for different guitars were pre-dimensioned from their wood supplier to keep costs down.

Les Paul tops were cut from 5/4 lumber...which Gibson apparently had a hard time procuring. So, Les Paul tops were set apart from other guitars that utilized maple.

 

[abalonevintage]

Check out the book, "Beauty of the Burst." There is an excellent section in the back that addresses these particulars in great detail.

 

[ppgf]

thanks!

good lookin' out.

i'll get up in it.

Check out the book, "Beauty of the Burst." There is an excellent section in the back that addresses these particulars in great detail.

 

[Hydrogen]

What's under the pokerchips?

 

[mesaman]

The concept of covering up "flaws" is very interesting. Now that some of these have faded a bit, does anyone have pics of what was covered up?

 

[JJ Blair]

Anybody want to put up pictures to help clarify the line between dark cherry and dark burst? Is it only considered a dark burst if it's opaque?

 

[CDaughtry]

Here's an old picture of Gertrude( 9 2312) I have, which pretty clearly shows the mineral streak they were trying to hide.:jim

 

[abalonevintage]

The concept of covering up "flaws" is very interesting.

That is one reason I run from Sparkle Burgundy or any other metallic 60's finish.

Does anyone here want to tell that story? :laugh2:

 

[Pat Boyack]

Here's an old picture of Gertrude( 9 2312) I have, which pretty clearly shows the mineral streak they were trying to hide.:jim

This guitar is one reason why I'm a fan of Dark Bursts rather than the Cherry. Just my tastes......

Nice one Charlie. eace2

 

[JJ Blair]

Thanks, Charlie! Yeah, I guess I'm trying to see what range of dark makes it a Bark Burst. Gertrude goes form black cherry to cherry red, while 0 0234 seems to just be a dark burgundy.

 

[Hydrogen]

It might be pertinent to look across the range of models? Es, acoustics, etc.
There's no doubt in my mind that they used a reddish-brown-black dye on many models that faded very little. The question is if this dye is on Les Pauls. Some Les Pauls seem to be explainable by a particularly strong dye batch, clear coat ambering and very little sun exposure.

 

[JJ Blair]

Hydrogen, I've sprayed that finish before. There's definitely black in it. I don't know that I've seen a 50's LP with black in the burst edges.

edit: Looks like I'm wrong about that!