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NAMM 2024 Gibson/Fender clips ?

MattD1960

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Mar 17, 2009
Messages
754
In what respect .. ?
bringing the prices of these guitars down as wizard was saying would do damage to the used market, you where talking about the used market driving UP the prices of new ones because gibson wants to cash in on some of the limited models used prices
 

Wizard1183

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Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
787
id love to see those prices. Wonder what it really costs gibson to build these guitars and how sales would differ with a price decrease like that across the board. assuming that R7,8,0 would all be prices accordingly like they are now relative to the R9.

Also do we think gibson keeps the used market in mind when pricing the new guitars? this would do further damage to a used market that has declined in the past 2 years from a high point during covid
They absolutely keep the used market in mind. That’s why they charged $1k for those PAFs. Unless ThroBak just increased prices? They’re charging $700 for pups.

It’s why the collectors price of $50k for Greeny was priced. And if the used old wood? They’d charge 6figures.

What it cost them to make a custom shop? I’m willing to bet $4000. They actually probably don’t make that much on a guitar? The materials cost Pennie’s on the dollar. But if it takes 6 wks to make a custom shop? $25x 40 hrs x 6 wks is $6k. Now question is? Do all Gibson employees make $25 an hr? Someone installing tuners on the headstock can’t be paid as much as the person sanding or running the CNC. Therefore let’s say $4000 for the minimum wage or $8 an hr guy and $25 for the CNC and sanded which should include benefits to those full time employees. How many are full time vs part time? That’s where the bulk of the pricing goes. The wood and parts probably are less than $750 for a custom shop with amount they buy. Probably closer to $500
 

Dmcrisp36

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2024
Messages
44
They absolutely keep the used market in mind. That’s why they charged $1k for those PAFs. Unless ThroBak just increased prices? They’re charging $700 for pups.

It’s why the collectors price of $50k for Greeny was priced. And if the used old wood? They’d charge 6figures.

What it cost them to make a custom shop? I’m willing to bet $4000. They actually probably don’t make that much on a guitar? The materials cost Pennie’s on the dollar. But if it takes 6 wks to make a custom shop? $25x 40 hrs x 6 wks is $6k. Now question is? Do all Gibson employees make $25 an hr? Someone installing tuners on the headstock can’t be paid as much as the person sanding or running the CNC. Therefore let’s say $4000 for the minimum wage or $8 an hr guy and $25 for the CNC and sanded which should include benefits to those full time employees. How many are full time vs part time? That’s where the bulk of the pricing goes. The wood and parts probably are less than $750 for a custom shop with amount they buy. Probably closer to $500
Is there a huge difference in quality and sound between a standard and a r9 in 2024? I’m just curious because I haven’t played any of their newest stuff from the past 12 months
 

DrewB

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Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
1,439
It's guitar-by-guitar, honestly, but my experience is the Custom Shop Les Pauls consistently have an overall more-clear sound than Gibson USA models. I definitely prefer the feel of Custom Shop over USA, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who prefer USA.
 

Wizard1183

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Jan 20, 2018
Messages
787
Is there a huge difference in quality and sound between a standard and a r9 in 2024? I’m just curious because I haven’t played any of their newest stuff from the past 12 months
Huge? No. But there is a difference. However if you changed to historic parts probably no difference or minimal. Sound wise!

Quality? I’d say more hands on on historic vs UsA. Does it account for quality? That’s subjective now isn’t it?
 

MarcB

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Sep 1, 2023
Messages
948
used market driving UP the prices
I’m guessing the new Gibson’s prices may have been influenced by the used market.. and this could have both a negative and positive effect on the used market..
..from what I’ve noticed recently, used prices have come down a little.. but with the $20k model being out there and out of reach for many, this will probably push up the PreH/TH/CC market.
I have noticed that a few TH guitars that have been available for a while all sold within a 2 month window..is this in response to the $20k model .. ?🤔
 

MarcB

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Sep 1, 2023
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948
but I'm sure there are a lot of people who prefer USA.
I can vouch for my 23 Standard.. but I’d love to compare it to a TH, from my own personal experience.. as I don’t hold much “folk lore” or “mystic” to my instruments.. they’re are there to make music in my world.. and I’ve already said,
I’ve readdressed my GAS for a TH.. as the standard does what it’s supposed to do…
.. when standing in the Jimmy Page stance.
 

Wizard1183

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Jan 20, 2018
Messages
787
I’m guessing the new Gibson’s prices may have been influenced by the used market.. and this could have both a negative and positive effect on the used market..
..from what I’ve noticed recently, used prices have come down a little.. but with the $20k model being out there and out of reach for many, this will probably push up the PreH/TH/CC market.
I have noticed that a few TH guitars that have been available for a while all sold within a 2 month window..is this in response to the $20k model .. ?🤔
You sure it’s not inflation? And ppl thinking “they know what they got” kind of thing? I saw some bafoon try to sell a 1979 Gibson SG for $12000. I called him out and his claim was not made anymore, made in America blah blah. I said I have a 66 SG 90-95% original I couldn’t get $12k for. But your 79 will fetch it?
 

MarcB

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Sep 1, 2023
Messages
948
You sure it’s not inflation? And ppl thinking “they know what they got” kind of thing? I saw some bafoon try to sell a 1979 Gibson SG for $12000. I called him out and his claim was not made anymore, made in America blah blah. I said I have a 66 SG 90-95% original I couldn’t get $12k for. But your 79 will fetch it?
Inflation would account for guitars that are collectible and desired.. if in keeping with the original price point.. but $16-20k for a TH/CC is just greed.


🤦‍♂️

 

Dmcrisp36

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2024
Messages
44
Huge? No. But there is a difference. However if you changed to historic parts probably no difference or minimal. Sound wise!

Quality? I’d say more hands on on historic vs UsA. Does it account for quality? That’s subjective now isn’t it?
I kind of judge what Gibson does in comparison to what Martin does. It seems the current standards are pretty close to the custom shop and historic stuff at least just from a sound perspective. Martin on the other hand has similar price differences between its standard and authentic line but the sound is night and day apart. The authentics are flat out just a lot better sounding than the regular standards which shouldn’t be the case. At least Gibson didn’t do that which I give them credit for.
 

Wizard1183

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Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
787
Inflation would account for guitars that are collectible and desired.. if in keeping with the original price point.. but $16-20k for a TH/CC is just greed.


🤦‍♂️

Ok I’m confused on the first advert as 2015-2017 was TH. Not 2018 that I’m aware of? And I THINK the metal switch covers “may have had “True historic” on them? But I know those weee probably due to not selling all the 2016 models? Idk? But I wasn’t aware there was a True Historic model in 2018. They DID have all the TH parts in 2018? But it wasn’t called a TH. Either way? That’s overpriced and hard to believe someone would pay that much for a Murphy aged 2018 when you could go for the braz board model…
 

MarcB

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I came off Facebook over 6/7 years ago.. because of the endless stream of utter bullshit.. and I’m not surprised the bullshit/con game extends to FaceScam MarketPiss. Pfft.
 

Wizard1183

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787
I came off Facebook over 6/7 years ago.. because of the endless stream of utter bullshit.. and I’m not surprised the bullshit/con game extends to FaceScam MarketPiss. Pfft.
I call it Fuckbook. Lol it’s dumb. But mainly my groups pop up over all my friends posts. I rarely see those lol
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,665
They absolutely keep the used market in mind. That’s why they charged $1k for those PAFs. Unless ThroBak just increased prices? They’re charging $700 for pups.

It’s why the collectors price of $50k for Greeny was priced. And if the used old wood? They’d charge 6figures.

What it cost them to make a custom shop? I’m willing to bet $4000. They actually probably don’t make that much on a guitar? The materials cost Pennie’s on the dollar. But if it takes 6 wks to make a custom shop? $25x 40 hrs x 6 wks is $6k. Now question is? Do all Gibson employees make $25 an hr? Someone installing tuners on the headstock can’t be paid as much as the person sanding or running the CNC. Therefore let’s say $4000 for the minimum wage or $8 an hr guy and $25 for the CNC and sanded which should include benefits to those full time employees. How many are full time vs part time? That’s where the bulk of the pricing goes. The wood and parts probably are less than $750 for a custom shop with amount they buy. Probably closer to $500
Have you ever owned and operated your own business ? From the logic in your post I would guess not .
 

El Gringo

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Messages
5,665
Prices have risen on everything across the board post pandemic . Now some prices are coming down a hair for instance at the grocery store .
 

MarcB

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948
Now some prices are coming down
As previously mentioned, I’ve noticed used guitars are coming down a bit too.. this maybe unfortunately due to people selling personal equipment due to the cost of living.. which then influences the online stores to reflect those prices.. eg.. I’ve noticed guitars that have been available for a few months.. now selling below asking price. That said.. getting a used USA range 335 under 2k is now impossible..
I’m glad I went wild on two 335s and new 345 when I did during lockdown and just after.

Gotta keep an eye on market 😉
 

Dmcrisp36

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2024
Messages
44
As previously mentioned, I’ve noticed used guitars are coming down a bit too.. this maybe unfortunately due to people selling personal equipment due to the cost of living.. which then influences the online stores to reflect those prices.. eg.. I’ve noticed guitars that have been available for a few months.. now selling below asking price. That said.. getting a used USA range 335 under 2k is now impossible..
I’m glad I went wild on two 335s and new 345 when I did during lockdown and just after.

Gotta keep an eye on market 😉
I’m definitely part of that crowd. I inherited a bunch of equipment so I sold all the gear that was actually mine for some extra cash, but I sold everything way below it’s worth
 

MarcB

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948
I’m definitely part of that crowd. I inherited a bunch of equipment so I sold all the gear that was actually mine for some extra cash, but I sold everything way below it’s worth
Man.. I’m sorry to hear that.. I hope in time you get other stuff to replace those memories..
 
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