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NAMM 2024 Gibson/Fender clips ?

garywright

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Aug 17, 2002
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15,635
I waded through several long vids on youtube hoping to catch a glimpse..but notta..any out there yet ?
 

ADP

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Since they have nothing but shame to show for their brands.

The glory days are over until they both clean house and get a bunch of new guys excited with a full on passion for rekindling the love of American electric guitars and the culture of electric guitar Rock N Roll. Summer 2019 was the last hurrah.
 

MattD1960

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754
Since they have nothing but shame to show for their brands.

The glory days are over until they both clean house and get a bunch of new guys excited with a full on passion for rekindling the love of American electric guitars and the culture of electric guitar Rock N Roll. Summer 2019 was the last hurrah.
I have got to disagree with you here. I think right now at Gibson you have some of the most passionate people they have had in a good long time.

they have finally fully embraced what people want. old style, and reissue guitars. cesar seems every bit a "guitar guy" and Mat Koehler and Mark Agnesi seem to really value the History of gibson and really seem to understand the connection some of our favorite music/players.

how much more passion do you want to see and how could they express that.
between the killer USA offerings the custom shop and the next level ML stuff It seems to me Gibson is in a much better place then they were a decade ago.


not taking the piss here either I am genuinely curious why you feel they have lost something since 2019
 

ADP

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Killer USA offerings? Like what exactly? A 50's or 60's LP? A "Murphy" "Lab" to capitalize on one guy's name because resalers beforehand used to get premium prices on their guitars ACTUALLY finished by Tom Murphy? It's all a sad mockery of the industry they're trying to save. Guitar used to be fun. Only fun. Watch Eddie Van Halen for example. It never should have turned into a corporate money run for the rich.

Cesar, sure he's passionate but how much Kirk Hammet and Dave Mustaine can anyone take. The "Greeny" was an insulting and alienating release for Gibson diehards. The international programs and all of their grandiose attempts at expansion are all biting off more than Gibson as a company can chew and it will all come falling down again. Not to mention the guy is a disaster on social media. Here's a tip Cesar: count your money and get off the internet.

Mat Koehler is passionate. I'll give him that. The Theodore idea was on the right track. The whole Archive Collection, I mean. Is that on the back burner now? That was a nearly great idea in my opinion.
I just wish these guys had more of a sense of "we need something to re-spark the excitement of guitar!"
They're riding their Gravy Train of mundane shit with a Made in China sticker on it. Now that all of the CNC machines are dialed in and tuned to perfection they couldn't care less about the legacy, respect, or future for the Gibson brand name.

Mark Agnesi, on the otherhand, is the real deal and I'm happy he's at Gibson. He's a man of the people. He deserves the best and is a proper ambassador for the love of all things guitar.

Bottom line, It has gotten so bad that if you have any sense of awareness you'll notice the market of used guitars has totally crashed. It was a fun ride while it lasted.


EDIT: Gibson and Fender have the most responsiblity and power to put the culture of Electric Guitar rock n roll based music at the forefront again.
It is a dead culture. You see little boys who want to be girls nowadays because they've never even heard a riff from Led Zeppelin or Deep Purple.
 
Last edited:

MattD1960

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Mar 17, 2009
Messages
754
Killer USA offerings? Like what exactly? A 50's or 60's LP? A "Murphy" "Lab" to capitalize on one guy's name because resalers beforehand used to get premium prices on their guitars ACTUALLY finished by Tom Murphy? It's all a sad mockery of the industry they're trying to save. Guitar used to be fun. Only fun. Watch Eddie Van Halen for example. It never should have turned into a corporate money run for the rich.

Cesar, sure he's passionate but how much Kirk Hammet and Dave Mustaine can anyone take. The "Greeny" was an insulting and alienating release for Gibson diehards. The international programs and all of their grandiose attempts at expansion are all biting off more than Gibson as a company can chew and it will all come falling down again. Not to mention the guy is a disaster on social media. Here's a tip Cesar: count your money and get off the internet.

Mat Koehler is passionate. I'll give him that. The Theodore idea was on the right track. The whole Archive Collection, I mean. Is that on the back burner now? That was a nearly great idea in my opinion.
I just wish these guys had more of a sense of "we need something to re-spark the excitement of guitar!"
They're riding their Gravy Train of mundane shit with a Made in China sticker on it. Now that all of the CNC machines are dialed in and tuned to perfection they couldn't care less about the legacy, respect, or future for the Gibson brand name.

Mark Agnesi, on the otherhand, is the real deal and I'm happy he's at Gibson. He's a man of the people. He deserves the best and is a proper ambassador for the love of all things guitar.

Bottom line, It has gotten so bad that if you have any sense of awareness you'll notice the market of used guitars has totally crashed. It was a fun ride while it lasted.


EDIT: Gibson and Fender have the most responsiblity and power to put the culture of Electric Guitar rock n roll based music at the forefront again.
It is a dead culture. You see little boys who want to be girls nowadays because they've never even heard a riff from Led Zeppelin or Deep Purple.
I guess we have seriously different views here which is absolutely ok and why places like this are here. I guess I can separate the idea that yes the corporation that is gibson is at its core a money making venture and sometimes well that just doesn't mean "fun"

the Kirk and Dave stuff is for a segment of the guitar buying public just like Peter Green and Jimmy Page is for a different part. I think what they are trying to do is overall a good thing and thats what i will appreciate. i cant see how 2019 is some line in the sand where a dark cloud is blocking out the sun.


the guitars cant be free, and they need to appeal to a vast swath of the guitar playing public, you saying at the end that fender and gibson need to push guitar playing to the forefront but up top you say cesar has bitten off more then they can chew with the " grandiose attempts at expansion" I think them expending is them attempting to push the guitar back into the spotlight dont you ? the more guitars they put in the hands of kids,teens, adults means more people playing means more people listening which means more guitar for guitarist to enjoy right ?


Ill ask again ( and again really i promise ZERO attitude here) How would you like the company to express their collective Passion for guitar
and i extend that question to anyone bothering to read this thread here. what is it they should be doing.
 

ADP

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Jul 16, 2015
Messages
691
Ill ask again ( and again really i promise ZERO attitude here) How would you like the company to express their collective Passion for guitar
and i extend that question to anyone bothering to read this thread here. what is it they should be doing.
I'm not paid by Gibson OR Fender to answer that question for them. But ask some 12 year old kid what he thinks of Gibson. Or a real Les Paul for that matter.

Gibson has soured the pot for what makes these guitars cool to own and play.

The guy's who started the Custom Shop at Fender. The guy's who started to make Les Paul's more accurate again. It was that initial drive to a goal of making those instruments for any player to truly be proud to own and play.

In 2019 they had that renewed energy it seemed. J.C. was the best thing to ever happen to Gibson - these guy's just can't play at his level.
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,665
I guess we have seriously different views here which is absolutely ok and why places like this are here. I guess I can separate the idea that yes the corporation that is gibson is at its core a money making venture and sometimes well that just doesn't mean "fun"

the Kirk and Dave stuff is for a segment of the guitar buying public just like Peter Green and Jimmy Page is for a different part. I think what they are trying to do is overall a good thing and thats what i will appreciate. i cant see how 2019 is some line in the sand where a dark cloud is blocking out the sun.


the guitars cant be free, and they need to appeal to a vast swath of the guitar playing public, you saying at the end that fender and gibson need to push guitar playing to the forefront but up top you say cesar has bitten off more then they can chew with the " grandiose attempts at expansion" I think them expending is them attempting to push the guitar back into the spotlight dont you ? the more guitars they put in the hands of kids,teens, adults means more people playing means more people listening which means more guitar for guitarist to enjoy right ?


Ill ask again ( and again really i promise ZERO attitude here) How would you like the company to express their collective Passion for guitar
and i extend that question to anyone bothering to read this thread here. what is it they should be doing.
I agree I million % with you that Cesar , and JC are really taking it to the next level and just maybe it will kick start another Guitar revolution with more kids and adults picking up an instrument and learning the joys and wonders of all things GUITAR !
 

ADP

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Jul 16, 2015
Messages
691
I agree I million % with you that Cesar , and JC are really taking it to the next level and just maybe it will kick start another Guitar revolution with more kids and adults picking up an instrument and learning the joys and wonders of all things GUITAR !
JC is long gone. Where've you been?
 

bluesroom

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Jul 17, 2001
Messages
443
I have got to disagree with you here. I think right now at Gibson you have some of the most passionate people they have had in a good long time.

they have finally fully embraced what people want. old style, and reissue guitars. cesar seems every bit a "guitar guy" and Mat Koehler and Mark Agnesi seem to really value the History of gibson and really seem to understand the connection some of our favorite music/players.

how much more passion do you want to see and how could they express that.
between the killer USA offerings the custom shop and the next level ML stuff It seems to me Gibson is in a much better place then they were a decade ago.


not taking the piss here either I am genuinely curious why you feel they have lost something since 2019
I think people are passionate, but I think the problem is a clear plan. If Gibson wanted to be successful, cut the whole USA line and amps. They spend more money and time making crap. To those of us who grew up in the 70s and 80s —- we lived through all Gibsons failed attempts to recreate what they produced in the late 50s and early 60s. Thats what they are recreating with the USA line. They have the ability to create a great product that is historically accurate. Thats what people want, not the USA line. And we don’t want 20k Murphys either. Make a historically accurate line with a true nitro finish like the 50s. With quality control, and playability. Trash the USA line. The inspired by Epiphones are great, they can satisfy the budget line —- because they are affordable and very well made. The Gibson historic line should be the main focus. The Murphy lab can be the ‘custom’ shop made to order, and people can pay more for their dream if they want. But creating guitars without original features, or holding back recipes that they have unraveled for their 20k guitars is bad business. If they focussed on a good accurate product, their prices would come down considerably and people would be happy and they would make money hand over fist. It’s simple. It’s common sense to me. I’d eliminate 75 % of the stuff they are producing that’s collecting dust.
 

MarcB

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Sep 1, 2023
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Gibson are trading on their history and maintaining the folk lore around the 58/59 & 60 models and the limited number of these guitars. Having very limited numbers of the “historicals” continues that concept and folk lore and creates a collectors market and subsequent used market.

If every guitar was historically correct the market wouldn’t sustain the folk lore and collectors market, which previously (70/80s) only existed outside of the Gibson empire. So cashing in on this element makes good business sense but unfortunately alienates the broke musician who wants a historical accurate Gibson. That said with the multiple historic ranges over the years, the used prices of the early historics become more affordable.

The standard range serves a very good percentage of the market too.. not everyone wants a historical, young guitarists have to start somewhere and are not necessarily aware of the history (arguable now) but know the design .. plus the standard range is the perfect “gateway drug” into the custom ranges, once brand loyalty has been established.
 

MattD1960

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Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
754
Gibson are trading on their history and maintaining the folk lore around the 58/59 & 60 models and the limited number of these guitars. Having very limited numbers of the “historicals” continues that concept and folk lore and creates a collectors market and subsequent used market.

If every guitar was historically correct the market wouldn’t sustain the folk lore and collectors market, which previously (70/80s) only existed outside of the Gibson empire. So cashing in on this element makes good business sense but unfortunately alienates the broke musician who wants a historical accurate Gibson. That said with the multiple historic ranges over the years, the used prices of the early historics become more affordable.

The standard range serves a very good percentage of the market too.. not everyone wants a historical, young guitarists have to start somewhere and are not necessarily aware of the history (arguable now) but know the design .. plus the standard range is the perfect “gateway drug” into the custom ranges, once brand loyalty has been established.
I second the hell outa this.

When i was 15 and fell in love will Jimmy Page i got a les paul classic cuz thats what i could save up for. was it the greatest guitar in the world no BUT it was my entry point into this world i felt like i had the REAL thing. then i learned (mainly from this place) about Braz boards,Hide Glue, Truss rod condoms, inlay materials all that stuff that sets the USA apart from the Custom shop apart from the real deal. That process was fun, reading,watching learning lurking at all hours of the night reading threads on here about ALL the little things that add up to a great thing. gibson offering that to other kids and people without 4k to get into a custom shop reissue is important, it allows them to feel like they are in the club, thats what it felt like for me anyway and that fostered brand loyalty and it gave me something to aspire to. one day ill have a custom shop R whatever. and now as I still lurk here and even poke my head up to comment a bit on stuff I pine after getting a real vintage Les Paul. Its a journey and its gotta start somewhere. for some its Epiphone for some its Gibson USA for a lucky few its Custom Shop, but all those different levels and price points are so important it lets the love develop. saying that just because gibson can make a better guitar they should be rid of the USA level "standard" instruments i think its a bit obtuse of a view. the consumer NEEDS those offerings as much as gibson does. it keeps the story going
 

goldtop0

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Aug 19, 2003
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The big boys don't need NAMM or other guitar shows like Arlington to display their wares, they've got the internet to do that.
For people like me outside the US it's been a boom time that will continue.
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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I think it's great for the consumer to have choices when shopping for guitars . That's why I think Gibson is doing it correctly . Starting with the Epiphone line , then Gibson USA , and all of the goodies in the Gibson Custom line including the Murphy Lab . The more choices and price points that a consumer has means better choices !
 
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