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Gibson creates "Murphy Lab" / New Custom Shop head

Cliff Gress

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Joined
Aug 26, 2004
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3,068
Fake or not the point is the kids were grooving to rock n roll. If you like the groove, you'll pick up the tools.
 

mistersnappy

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Jan 20, 2006
Messages
7,306
Someday guitars might be the banjos of the harpsichord world.

Great music will always exist. :dude:
 

Cliff Gress

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Aug 26, 2004
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3,068
Enjoyed that a lot.

Wish you were here...

Hope the new Murphy Lab does well for Gibson and for guitars.
 

JPP-1

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Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,311
I get excited when I play a great sounding guitar and somewhat apoplectic when I hear unsubstantiated and erroneous bullcrap about wood color and tone ignorantly parroted on intent forums.

If you happen to play a great historic Les Paul you’d recognize that it is on every level a superlative instrument second to none, Pity, you haven’t played one.

And yes the term mahogany has been used a catch all for a variety of mahogany like woods but that is not the case here but I guess you have no problem adding to the wealth of misleading and erroneous information the clogs wonderful forums such as the LPF.

For the record, Swietenia macrophylla also know as Honduran Mahogany is the species of mahogany grown in a Fiji. During World War II, for strategic reasons, Swietenia macrophylla was planted in Fiji because among other considerations, the climate there was conducive to its growth. Fiji became a great source of mature Swietenia macrophylla trees so it would make sense for Gibson to buy their premium mahogany from Fiji.

But let’s cut to the chase shall we. there’s the saying money talks, BS walks. I’ll happily make a $10,000+ wager with you or anyone who insists they can hear where a piece of mahogany is grown and/or it’s color. 10 guitars: 5 with Swietenia macrophylla from Fiji and 5 with Swietenia macrophylla form Honduras. If you can tell which is which with your ears I pay you, if you can’t you pay me. Any takers?


"Mahogany" is no longer a specific label for a specie of plant or wood. Its now used, unapologetically, as a color. Mahogany furniture ceased being anything related to the original species 30 years ago. Luan is Mahogany, Sapele is Mahogany, stained Poplar is Mahogany - the only reason manufactures are now honestly revealing "Sapele", is to justify higher pricing for "Mahogany", whatever "Mahogany" may be.

The color is a major factor for me. I get exited when I see that familiar Gibson brown from the 40's, 50's and even 60's. I get excited when I see that familiar Martin red-brown from anything pre-60's. I don't care these new "Mahoganys" that are yellow or pale tan, ocre, or whatever. It looks like what it is: NOT real Mahogany.
 
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PeteNJ75

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
108
This is good news for Tom Murphy and good news for Gibson. I sure hope Gibson is able to seize this opportunity to "up the ante" with regard to building new guitars that rival the lauded vintage examples from 1952-1964. Note to Gibson...would you please return to sourcing and procuring your mahogany lumber from Central and South America (or at least in this hemisphere) If NASA can land and operate multiple autonomous rover vehicles on Mars, then establishing a reliable source for genuine Honduras Mahogany shouldn't be too difficult.

I couldn't agree more, and I'm surprised it's not a topic people talk about much. I appreciate that the mahogany they've been using is light, which is keeping almost all of the R7s, R8s, and R9s under 9 pounds, but they're not TRULY recreating a 1958-60 burst unless they're using Honduran Mahogany. Which, obviously will have a much different sound and feel than what they're currently using. I'm really hoping for the day they make an R9 with the 60th Anniversary specs, but using Honduran Mahogany and hopefully they'll do a small run with Brazilian boards. It will probably cost an outrageous sum of money, but that will be a TRUE historic reissue, IMO.
 

Big Al

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Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,294
I get excited when I play a great sounding guitar and somewhat apoplectic when I hear unsubstantiated and erroneous bullcrap about wood color and tone ignorantly parroted on intent forums.

If you happen to play a great historic Les Paul you’d recognize that it is on every level a superlative instrument second to none, Pity, you haven’t played one.

And yes the term mahogany has been used a catch all for a variety of mahogany like woods but that is not the case here but I guess you have no problem adding to the wealth of misleading and erroneous information the clogs wonderful forums such as the LPF.

For the record, Swietenia macrophylla also know as Honduran Mahogany is the species of mahogany grown in a Fiji. During World War II, for strategic reasons, Swietenia macrophylla was planted in Fiji because among other considerations, the climate there was conducive to its growth. Fiji became a great source of mature Swietenia macrophylla trees so it would make sense for Gibson to buy their premium mahogany from Fiji.

But let’s cut to the chase shall we. there’s the saying money talks, BS walks. I’ll happily make a $10,000+ wager with you or anyone who insists they can hear where a piece of mahogany is grown and/or it’s color. 10 guitars: 5 with Swietenia macrophylla from Fiji and 5 with Swietenia macrophylla form Honduras. If you can tell which is which with your ears I pay you, if you can’t you pay me. Any takers?

+1000

Thank you, brother!!!!!

It gets tiresome, reading dumbass pontificating posts from ignorant knuckleheads who can't tell a finish color from wood species. Everything you said is spot on.
 

Big Al

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Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,294
I couldn't agree more, and I'm surprised it's not a topic people talk about much. I appreciate that the mahogany they've been using is light, which is keeping almost all of the R7s, R8s, and R9s under 9 pounds, but they're not TRULY recreating a 1958-60 burst unless they're using Honduran Mahogany. Which, obviously will have a much different sound and feel than what they're currently using. I'm really hoping for the day they make an R9 with the 60th Anniversary specs, but using Honduran Mahogany and hopefully they'll do a small run with Brazilian boards. It will probably cost an outrageous sum of money, but that will be a TRUE historic reissue, IMO.

I'm surprised you couldn't be bothered to learn the truth before posting ignorant topics we should be talking about.

Gibson uses Honduran Mahogany, which is a trade name for SWIETENIA MACROPHYLLA, the exact same species of wood as in the 50's.

I am so happy and pleased to own and play these wonderfully expressive musical instruments! Beautifully made, like my 50's originals. I've played for over 50 years and never before was it so good.

Why not enjoy these great guitars instead of inventing non issues?
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,294
The only hot air around here is you! And who the hell appointed you the "Grand Puobah" of all things mahogany? Your self-aggrandizing posts reveal volumes about your unchecked ego. Get off your high horse and open your eyes!

And who ever decreed that a manufacturer selects guitar tone-wood purely for the sound it produces? That's preposterous! Give me a break!

The photos below illustrates the ghastly yellow color, and cross-grain router chaff marks, which are characteristic of your hallowed lightweight yellow Fiji variety (non-genuine mahogany). This control cavity shot is from a 2018 Wildwood Spec, Tom Murphy painted R8 (w/ RS electronics kit). Don't ya' just love the tooling marks, and router chaff in the control cavity route of this 2018 Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul? And that yellow piss color is sensational too! :wow





There are many other significant factors that enter into a manufactures choice of lumber, such as: (a) ability to take various finish formulations and sealers; (b) ease of milling, carving, and routing the lumber; (c) wear and tear on shop CNC machines, bits, saw blades, etc. (d) adverse skin, eyes, and respiratory effects of saw dust exposure; (e) attractive figure and grain patterns; (f) COLOR; (g) density; (g) cost; (h) CITEs regulations and sustainability; (i). customer acceptance and beauty.

I have never seen a single Gibson Les Paul Standard from any decade, constructed of genuine Honduran mahogany, look as bad is the Fiji example in the photos above. :rofl:rofl:rofl.

Enjoy your Fiji wood. You told me already that it sounds great! And all your luthier experts say the same thing. Right. Give me a break! :bigal

You spew an awful lot of bullshit, yet you do prove a point that is undeniable. You have no clue to what you are talking about. Facts just don't matter when it comes to your baseless opinions.
 

JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,311
+1000

Thank you, brother!!!!!

It gets tiresome, reading dumbass pontificating posts from ignorant knuckleheads who can't tell a finish color from wood species. Everything you said is spot on.

Yes, It’s mind numbing. Don’t get me wrong, if Swietenia macrophylla harvested from a plantation in Honduras vs Fiji makes someone feel more secure and happy with their guitar then they should go for it. A salute.

What i find exasperating is what do these people feel is missing from their current Historic. It defies logic. I mean seriously how the fvck is plantation wood from Honduras going to make a difference. does the ghost of Eric Clapton haunt the Swietenia macrophylla trees there. Even when I played a couple of my Historics next to a conversion and a boutique Les Paul both of which were allegedly made from old growth wood, there Wasn’t a qualitative difference. I had cash in hand and would’ve bought it if there was.

As I’ve said people are free to do whatever they want, feel free to chase the wild goose. But if you’ve played a sufficient number of historics and don’t like the tone, you either don’t have it set up right, don’t have a good complimentary amp and speaker combo or you just plain suck and even Duane Allman’s gear ain’t going to help.
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,294
Yes, It’s mind numbing. Don’t get me wrong, if Swietenia macrophylla harvested from a plantation in Honduras vs Fiji makes someone feel more secure and happy with their guitar then they should go for it. A salute.

What i find exasperating is what do these people feel is missing from their current Historic. It defies logic. I mean seriously how the fvck is plantation wood from Honduras going to make a difference. does the ghost of Eric Clapton haunt the Swietenia macrophylla trees there. Even when I played a couple of my Historics next to a conversion and a boutique Les Paul both of which were allegedly made from old growth wood, there Wasn’t a qualitative difference. I had cash in hand and would’ve bought it if there was.

As I’ve said people are free to do whatever they want, feel free to chase the wild goose. But if you’ve played a sufficient number of historics and don’t like the tone, you either don’t have it set up right, don’t have a good complimentary amp and speaker combo or you just plain suck and even Duane Allman’s gear ain’t going to help.

Well, the whole "Old Growth" Mahogany thing is a myth. Old Growth is a term used to describe a particular state of forest growth. It does not apply to individual trees or to tropical rain forests. Gibson did not use massive ancient mahogany trees. They shipped logs of mahogany, (not from Honduras), to their wood mill in Kalamazoo. Logs were picked for size and were mostly about the same size and age as present Fiji harvest. They were kiln dried, not aged air dried as some claim.

A Blue Spruce, grown in my upstate NY back yard or Alaska or Britan is still a Blue Spruce.
 

abracadaben

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Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
230
I haven’t seen any documentation formally identifying that Gibson was sourcing their Mahogany only from Honduras back in the 50s.
I could be wrong but I don’t think it was ever sure where they got it from...... so the wood convo is kinda mute....
I have no issue with Fiji Mahogany as its the same spieces anyway, which makes it genuine. And its been planted there for over 50 years + now.... not same same terroir buts still....

The issues I have with the razor checking are:
1) I hate when they stop the check lines like 2mm from the edge of the body or headstock..... it doesn’t look right
2) inconsistent check line depth...
3) finish pops when they turn the blade or at intersections
4) Gibson tries to automate the process and sometimes makes it look unnatural. Like remember CC13 with the machined check lines in the back???? Horrible
 
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Tim

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Jul 15, 2001
Messages
1,833
This is the thread from 15 years ago when we discussed the mahogany used in historics. Sparky posted a link to the custom shop faq, which is no longer active, but I posted this quote from the custom shop's page - "Swietania Macrophylla, same type of Mahagony used since the late 80's."
 
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renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,221
I get excited when I play a great sounding guitar and somewhat apoplectic when I hear unsubstantiated and erroneous bullcrap about wood color and tone ignorantly parroted on intent forums.

If you happen to play a great historic Les Paul you’d recognize that it is on every level a superlative instrument second to none, Pity, you haven’t played one.

And yes the term mahogany has been used a catch all for a variety of mahogany like woods but that is not the case here but I guess you have no problem adding to the wealth of misleading and erroneous information the clogs wonderful forums such as the LPF.

For the record, Swietenia macrophylla also know as Honduran Mahogany is the species of mahogany grown in a Fiji. During World War II, for strategic reasons, Swietenia macrophylla was planted in Fiji because among other considerations, the climate there was conducive to its growth. Fiji became a great source of mature Swietenia macrophylla trees so it would make sense for Gibson to buy their premium mahogany from Fiji.

But let’s cut to the chase shall we. there’s the saying money talks, BS walks. I’ll happily make a $10,000+ wager with you or anyone who insists they can hear where a piece of mahogany is grown and/or it’s color. 10 guitars: 5 with Swietenia macrophylla from Fiji and 5 with Swietenia macrophylla form Honduras. If you can tell which is which with your ears I pay you, if you can’t you pay me. Any takers?

Thank you!

I can't believe all these doofs who think it's WHERE the log came from.

When we know it's WHAT TIME OF DAY THE TREE WAS FELLED!
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,410
Love it Paul I live in Northern Minnesota -17 degrees this morning .Land of the lumberjacks !
 

PeteNJ75

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Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
108
Thank you!

I can't believe all these doofs who think it's WHERE the log came from.

When we know it's WHAT TIME OF DAY THE TREE WAS FELLED!

In no way am I claiming I know anything about wood species, but I just can’t wrap my head around the idea that different mahogany species growing in different countries with different climates are going to sound exactly the same. The quality of the guitars they’re producing right now are amazing no doubt, but there seems to be *something* different about the wood they’re using because they seem to be significantly lighter on average than what they were using in the past. Is it less dense? Isn’t that going to effect tone? Honestly just curious.
 
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