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What Does It All Mean ?

j45

Active member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
9,081
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much when I comes to "definitive" voicing behaviors of P-90 and PAF pickups.... and I've made my sole living for 44 years playing a guitar and still doing it to this day.... there are just too many variables involved... I hope try to make a point that may help sum up all that's been said recently about both variations. I hope this will be a quick and painless experiment... Not going to convolute this with anything other than is it P-90 or PAF? I play six, 25 second guitar solos, here are the times of each... what do you hear in each, P-90 or PAF?

And if you know the answers from my soundclick page or previous variation I posted please refrain from spoiling. I admire everyone here who stuck their neck out to participate in these recent trials. In most cases I can't be sure what kind, shape, construction, equipped, guitar one is unless I've already had a chance to hear it in the environment of variables that it is presented in. Nevertheless, I can still "try" to guess ...based on what I've heard before and what I think might be able to get that sound.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=5100928&q=hi&newref=1

1. 0:00 - 0:55
2. 0:55 - 1:24
3. 1:24 - 1:50
4. 1:50 - 2:18
5. 2:18 - 2:43
6. 2:43 - end


gibsonsonfloor.jpg


LP-outside-1.jpg
 

riscado

Active member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
1,460
I wouldn't be able to say which section is a p90 and which is a paf, and definitely neither could I say what guitar it is. However, as far as favourites go, for me it's a toss between #2 and #5. From these two I believe #2 to be a paf guitar, but #5 I'm not sure.
 

T.Allen

Moderator
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
2,645
#1 sounds like a P90 and #3 sounds like a PAF guitar to me. That's about all I got.

Nice burst in 2nd photo! :salude Do you have any recordings of it?
 

CDaughtry

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner and Moderator
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
12,645
The differences are so subtle, it's amazing. They all sound GREAT!:yah I'll be shocked if I get more than one or two right. That being said, I'll give it a shot:

1)PAF
2)PAF
3)P-90
4)P-90
5)PAF
6)P-90


One final thought: When can we get together for guitar lessons?:jim
 

KingsleyMac

New member
Joined
Jan 23, 2015
Messages
86
1. PAF
2. PAF
3. P90
4. PAF
5. P90
6. PAF

Heading out to a gig now and rocking vintage P90 power. Great playing, J45.
 

Edward

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
1,252
Indeed, all sound great and I'd only be showing off my blessed ignorance should I dare try and guess. Differences are there, subtle but discernable, but not a bad tone in the lot! ...not to mention nice playin! :D
That's it, that's all I got, which is to say nada ...lol!

Edward
 

mica59

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
33
Thanks for the effort but I have to say that recording doesn't help for me, because it seems that the setting were not the same on all guitar, maybe some where on neck pickup, other on bridge pickup, and off course depending on each output level, the volume knob should be adjusted to get the same level.

Anyway, let's play and say :

1-P90
2-PAF
3-PAF
4-P90
5-P90
6-PAF

but my choice was also inspired my the different intensity in the song, which was difficult to make abstraction of :)
 

j45

Active member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
9,081
JFYI each solo was on bridge pickup with both tone and volume dimed and amp was dimed for each solo as well. Settings were kept uniform at all times.
 

mica59

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
33
JFYI each solo was on bridge pickup with both tone and volume dimed and amp was dimed for each solo as well. Settings were kept uniform at all times.

Good for bridge position, but as I said, it would have been better to get the same level output on each, so rolling down volume on the hotter pickups, it is so dificult to really concentrate on the subtility anyway, i think my ears can't tell :)
 

j45

Active member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
9,081
Good for bridge position, but as I said, it would have been better to get the same level output on each, so rolling down volume on the hotter pickups, it is so dificult to really concentrate on the subtility anyway, i think my ears can't tell :)

Ok, we are getting closer to the whole point right here. The levels are all the same, tweaked carefully during recording and mix process. The fact some solos have more harmonics, different character of voice and the amount of highs and lows each possess gives the impression of more energy or louder, when they aren't. What you are basically asking is that they all be EQ'd to sound similar where they al have similar voice and then you may be able to tell something, which of course would make it even harder. The fact that there are very significant differences in dynamics and harmonic content of each is the point and what to base what you think you are hearing on...... and also hotter pickups do not necessarily translate to "louder"... much of a guitar's volume comes from the resonance of the guitar itself...when using microphonic pickups like old pafs and p90s. When I give the answer it will be even more evident that these type of perceptions are based on variables that have nothing to do with p90 or paf or the even hotter pickup or softer pickup, nor the levels the guitar was set at.. I can't imagine a more different voice between #2 and #5...totally different character, tremendous difference in amount of harmonic content as well as the frequency of the fundamental the amp grabs and reproduces the strongest. And by the way those are my two favorite sounds in the clip.
 
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sikoniko

Active member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
674
Out of curiosity, would you share the signal chain? Guitar (variable to be revealed at a later point) -> amp? -> mic (one or two? close mic? room mic?) -> preamp? -> i/o? -> DAW? -> any processing? plugins? eq? limiters? etc?
 

j45

Active member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
9,081
Out of curiosity, would you share the signal chain? Guitar (variable to be revealed at a later point) -> amp? -> mic (one or two? close mic? room mic?) -> preamp? -> i/o? -> DAW? -> any processing? plugins? eq? limiters? etc?

IIRC the recording chain was a Coles 4038 and SM81 about 3- 4' out and each about 45 degree off axis of the amp. I believe I used an API 3124 for pre, no compression or EQ on the guitar tracks but I did use an 1176 on the single mic (soundelux e47) in front of the drums and bass amp with UA 610 pre. no plug ins... The recorder was a roland VS2480 home studio daw. The room was VERY small.
 

sikoniko

Active member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
674
IIRC the recording chain was a Coles 4038 and SM81 about 3- 4' out and each about 45 degree off axis of the amp. I believe I used an API 3124 for pre, no compression or EQ on the guitar tracks but I did use an 1176 on the single mic (soundelux e47) in front of the drums and bass amp with UA 610 pre. no plug ins... The recorder was a roland VS2480 home studio daw. The room was VERY small.

Thanks! the recording sounded great. I guess I assumed you just played to a backing track. Did you play all of the instruments? Everything sounded great!

The biggest stand-out for me was the difference between 1 and 2. It sounded like there was a bump in db or fullness between the two. I could tell a difference in all of the others if I was listening close, but just in casual listening it blended very well.

I know this is a little off topic, but relevant to what we are hearing. I have been going back and forth between getting a 1073 clone or a UAudio Apollo and using the 1073 plug-in.
 

j45

Active member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
9,081
I play instruments in all my backing racks and try to get the vintage sound of the records these guitar sounds originated in. I've not cared for any plug ins I've tried... always seem to be a far cry from the original hardware. Someone who is a true industry pro like LPF member JJ Blair could give you much better advice. There seem to be some decent 1073 clones for reasonable money.
 

CDaughtry

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner and Moderator
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
12,645
So when are we going to find out which ones are Strats and which ones are Teles?:hee
 
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