Weber Legacy Speakers (Scumbacks?)

[edgewound]

Edgewound:
I see that you are in the speaker reconing business. Do you have a dog in this fight? Wouldn't Weber be a competitor in the reconing business? Will you be building/reconing for Scumback in the future?

For full disclosure - I am a satisified customer of Weber, and they also provided me reconing supplies and let me stand over them and watch and ask dumb questions. What I really like about Weber is their pricing of $25 for a recone on any of their speakers when they're out of warranty.

I have no dogs in any fight.

I have been in the reconing business since 1988 when JBL put me in business.

As far as competition with Weber....there isn't any.

 

[edgewound]

You were explaining "intellectual property" on the Gear Page ...
NOW you're the wrong folks ???

OK

I find this whole scenario an interesting development from the readings of postings on the various forums/websites...This all happened after Ted passed. Interesting timing...including the intro of the DT line of speakers that were also supposed to be "exclusive" through another seller.

 

[rickc007]

I find this whole scenario an interesting development from the readings of postings on the various forums/websites...This all happened after Ted passed. Interesting timing...including the intro of the DT line of speakers that were also supposed to be "exclusive" through another seller.

You said that ... and other negative things questioning Weber's integrity on the Gear Page,

Along with ...
"I am a satisified customer of Weber, and they also provided me reconing supplies ...."

Do you want to stay that way ???
Based on TA's alleged "shrewd" business practices, are you concerned at all, if he read your posts ???

Hello !!!
"tap" "tap"
Is this thing one ?

 

[edgewound]

You said that ... and other negative things questioning Weber's integrity on the Gear Page,

Along with ...
"I am a satisified customer of Weber, and they also provided me reconing supplies ...."

Do you want to stay that way ???
Based on TA's alleged "shrewd" business practices, are you concerned at all, if he read your posts ???

Hello !!!
"tap" "tap"
Is this thing one ?

I have never been a customer of Weber. I have never had a reason to buy anything from Weber. Where do you get this false information?

I haven't said anything that's not posted somewhere else for public consumption so he's welcome to read any and all of this stuff.

Maybe you can share it with him.

 

[GlassSnuff]

Jim has posted that no speaker manufacturer was interested in doing business with him except Weber.

As stated above, Weber was the only one who would deal with Scumback.
Now, no one will ...

No one else would work with Scumback, that's very telling.

It's interesting to watch you twist a simple statement into a false conclusion.

Celestion couldn't justify reworking one of their production lines for an order as small as Jim's initial one. Who else is there? Peavey? Eminence? Jensen? EV? They're all big and automated. Weber was the one that could accommodate Jim's needs.

As far as "working with Scumback", what's most telling is people like Celestion's North American sales manager and WGS's production manager are wishing Jim "good luck". Both may lose a few sales to Scumback, but they're happy to see Jim succeed.

The question is, why are you so unhappy with Jim's success? If you like Weber speakers, just go buy some. There's no need to carry on a smear campaign across several forums simply because someone that's done a good job is popular.

My posts here/there are to give Scumback's posse a wrap across the snout to say 2 can play this

That TGP clique had been pretty overboard

That's all you got? Jim must be wrong because he has friends?

:bigal

 

[1fastdog]

Why quote my post when you have "no dog in this fight"?

So....you're saying the previous post I quoted isn't suspect?

I have an opinion just like you, and mine is just as valid as anyone else's. I just pointed out public access disclosure from a website.

I quote your post only to suggest it's an allegation and a repeat of something you read. Friendly advice man, nothing else.

Yes you have an OPINION just as others do. When I say "friendly advice" I mean just that. No sarcasm.

I have no factual understanding if what's being posted about this on the forums on the 'net are suspect or not.

Any response on this is based on my general expereince with similar situations.

 

[rickc007]

The question is, why are you so unhappy with Jim's success? If you like Weber speakers, just go buy some. There's no need to carry on a smear campaign across several forums simply because someone that's done a good job is popular.


That's all you got? Jim must be wrong because he has friends?

:bigal

Nice Twist ...
I couldn't care less about Jim's success, or that he has friends.
It's the ill wishes, and negative comments they are pummeling Weber with that got my goat.

They have denounced his quality, his integrity, predicted his company failure, attacked his "desire" and "passion" (even though his actions seem over zealous), and basically accused Weber of stealing Scumbacks "Intellectual Property".

If Weber is indeed in error, issue a Cease and Desist and move on.
This happens a LOT in this business ...

If Weber is within his Legal rights ... what are you going to do ?

 

[jamisonlps]

How soon before we get to hear the speaker shootout? New Scumback vs Weber Legacy, to find out which one sounds more like the original.

Hahaha...I'll have some clips recorded/uploaded in a week or so...I have an original Weber M75-25w, a new prod. M75-65w and just ordered a Weber Legacy M75-65 a week ago.

 

[jbzoso2002]

Sure they know how to manufacture the speaker, but they didn't do the research, put in the money to source the originals to create it, or come up with the formula/idea to build them until Scumback went with them to manufacture the speaker. Since it was a proprietary speaker design for Scumback, what gives Weber the right to market it when the agreement ends, since it was proprietary?

You don't see an ethical/business & agreement breach with that?

Just to restate my opinion on this: Weber and Scumbak are
copying a concept and tone from Celestion, a Scumbak
M75 or a Weber Legacy is a copy of a Celestion G12M.

If Celestion doesnt care then both company's can do whatever
they want.

Metro Amp and Germino make 60's Marshalls.

Jimmyeace2

 

[ScumbackSpeakers]

Once every 5-10 years I do a google search on myself, and I found this 12 year old thread. Didn't even know it was being discussed! Long story short, the agreement was between Ted & I, TA is/was just an accountant. When I wanted to do the BlackBack (BM75/BH75) models and the PVC models, TA refused to order those cones from Kurt Mueller in the UK. His reasoning was he wasn't going to spend "his money" on cones he wouldn't use in his speakers. You have to laugh at that, though. He was banging my CC for about $15-20k per month, so I'm sure if there were different cones involved he would have just charged me for them...right?

Instead, he refused to be involved..at all. Once the manufacturer starts telling the customer with the demand that he won't comply or manufacture the product, that pretty much leaves you with a WTF, scenario, right?

There had been a lot of failures with the Weber builds...voice coil rub right out of the box, etc. In 2010 one M75 100w failed twice in a row after being rebuilt by Weber...right out of the box. I took the speaker to Orange County Speaker Repair, since I had a long relationship with them from 2001. We took it apart, measured it, weighed it and found that the standard Kurt Mueller (G12M/G12H/etc) parts didn't fit. Apparently the voice coils were a different size/spec. We also found out the magnet were underweight. A 35 oz ceramic M magnet was 30 oz. A 50 oz H magnet was 43 oz. That started the serious inquiry for me to find out what was going on.

In February 2011, after TA said he would not build the BB and PVC speakers I got suspicious (rightfully so IMO). I contacted OCSR, they put me in touch with their voice coil supplier. Turns out it was the same as Weber's supplier. I talked to the owner and the first thing he asked me was "Now, do you want the exact Celestion spec or what I sell Weber?"

After that I contacted Celestion, they were willing to supply me with frames. I contacted Kurt Mueller, they were willing to sell me the era correct cones, spider/suspension parts and dust caps. I sent them some of my speakers to diagnose and they informed me they were not KM made cones. No wonder TA wouldn't order them. Voice coil supplier was totally on board, and one of my other MI contacts had a frame supplier. I got all that together in early spring 2011, BEFORE I parted ways with Weber. TA got wind of it, lied to me about getting his QC issues together and told me 5 days after I flew to Kokomo, IN to straighten it all out that he was canceling me as a client. Suddenly you had Weber Legacy speakers two days later, complete with website pages, etc. Coincidence?

Ok, your QC was crap anyway, TA, so see ya. Then the bogus over-charging of my CC happened to the tune of $5150. I won that CC dispute, he won't mention that online. Then he made T-shirts that said Weber Legacy "GFYJS" on them and said it meant "Good For Your Jam Session" instead of what my clients heard which was "Go F*** Yourself Jim Seavall". He sent me one to be vindictive. I call it childish, but hey, he's not a stand up guy, so I wasn't surprised.

Long story short, this is the kind of guy TA Weber is, including his builders and supposed "proprietary formula" that I didn't have. The fact of the matter is that the cones Weber used were not KM cones, although they advertised they were on their site under their re-coning parts. KM asked me to pursue a lawsuit to clear their name as well as mine. The problem is that I would have to pursue this in Indiana, not California, even though I was the damaged party.

Since they weren't doing the quality builds anymore, and since I wanted the right parts, I just said the hell with it and started building speakers myself since August 2011. I re-engineered the speaker treatment for the proper cones and never looked back. KM also had the old cone stamps from the 60/70's, but no one ordered them but me...go figure! Sales took off when I left Weber...to the tune of about 200-250% increase over the next 3-4 years. I got so busy I had two full time builders, and I was working 7 days per week. I throttled that back to have a life in 2015.

I realize some of you may not believe me, that's ok. Listen to one of your fellow guitar players instead here instead of me:

Seavall-Rebuilt Scumback M75-LHDC-HP Rocks!

I received a Weber-built Scumback M75-LHDC 65W for my Glaswerks 1x12 rear oval-port late last year and did not care for it at all. It had no sustain, no openness, no clarity and just sounded dead and lifeless overall. Jim and I thought it may have been because I slightly bent the frame or...

www.thegearpage.net

Conclusion: Weber is not the same company as when Ted was alive...and you can thank TA Weber for that...but hey, I don't drive a new Porsche, TA does. I'm sure my experiences (and financial losses) outweigh everyone else on this thread, since it cost me close to $80k to correct all of their mistakes. So, if you want to believe TA Weber/etc...be my guest. I learned the hard way, hopefully you won't have to. I hope that clears it all up for everyone.

Jim Seavall

 

[bern1]

In the 60’s there were many amplifier brands and speakers. Some combinations just worked out for the sounds of the times. Naturally there were just not enough of the things that worked out to go around. Especially since speakers have a finite life. Longer than guitar strings for the most part but still, a JTM at full tilt into a couple of original G12’s might have been pushing it a little. Add a wah and some other pedal and…. Naturally now, there are reproductions just like there are many versions of Strats and Les Pauls. Some are better than others.