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Les Paul Junior SC: Please tell me what you see.

bursty

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
564
I'm certainly no expert but shouldn't the neck tenon be extended past the fingerboard by about 2 inches?
The photo of the neck tenon in the OP shows the neck tenon 'flush' with the end of the fingerboard with what looks like the cherry color on the end of the neck tenon and the tenon route is also not extended for a ~2 inch route.
Unless I'm wrong (and I could be) then this is a red flag in my book.

AFA the head stock:
I wouldn't be so sure the head stock has not been repaired as the refinish color is not transparent thus it is possible it could be hiding some repair work.

I don't smell a rat but rather a few rats. I would pass on this example but that's just me.

YMMV .......
 

sws1

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,850
Sharp edges on most single cut Jrs. is normal, no? Gibson began to round the edges (to prevent/delay the inevitable chipping there) in later 1958+/-.
I recall that the earliest double cut Jrs. and Specials had the sharper edges.
- please correct me if I’m wrong!

My '56 Jr. Look at the edges of the horn. Much rounder than the OP guitar, which appears to have a tighter radius on the edge. (Could be the lighting.)
eSmZsHS.jpg
 

bursty

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
564
My '56 Jr. Look at the edges of the horn. Much rounder than the OP guitar, which appears to have a tighter radius on the edge. (Could be the lighting.)

thanks for posting the photo; it demonstrates that I was wrong in my above post concerning the tenon construction of the (single cut) Jr.
 

MacG

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
14
I'm certainly no expert but shouldn't the neck tenon be extended past the fingerboard by about 2 inches?
The photo of the neck tenon in the OP shows the neck tenon 'flush' with the end of the fingerboard with what looks like the cherry color on the end of the neck tenon and the tenon route is also not extended for a ~2 inch route.
Unless I'm wrong (and I could be) then this is a red flag in my book.

AFA the head stock:
I wouldn't be so sure the head stock has not been repaired as the refinish color is not transparent thus it is possible it could be hiding some repair work.

I don't smell a rat but rather a few rats. I would pass on this example but that's just me.

YMMV .......
Hi Bursty, The headstock color on the back is transparent, and so is the overspray on the back side of the neck, you just can´t photograph it. There were no signs of repairs, but why the overspray then..? The neckjoint looks right, and the edges of the body got sharper at the end of SC LPJ production. But the color confuses me, it looks original, but nobody seems to have seen a Cherry single cutaway Les Paul junior. The neck feels great, not too thick, it has thin strings on it, but even so it rings. I really am not sure about what I´m going to do. It comes from an estate sale, the seller is the widow, and nobody is trying to pass it off as something it is not. They don´t know much about guitars.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,547
That is a most likely a 56 or 57 Jr with extensive amateur mods, with a refret, an old refin and original p90 with replacement chrome cover. I have two that I bought and rebuilt long ago that were in similar shape. The body radius looks sharp because of over sanding, either in stripping old finish or body prep for new finish. Would make a fun project.
 

DANELECTRO

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Messages
6,320
Based on the position of the dogear P90 (which may or may not be in its original location) I'd say 1954-1956. In late 1956 the pickup was moved 1/4" away from the bridge.

I seriously doubt that the finish is original, particularly since it appears to be a 1956 or earlier model. I don't believe that Gibson applied a cherry finish onto anything until 1958. Its certainly an old looking finish, but it doesn't necessarily take 65 years to achieve that kind of appearance.

Its a boogered Junior for sure, but it could be restored by filling all of the routs and veneering the top.
 

MacG

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
14
Based on the position of the dogear P90 (which may or may not be in its original location) I'd say 1954-1956. In late 1956 the pickup was moved 1/4" away from the bridge.

I seriously doubt that the finish is original, particularly since it appears to be a 1956 or earlier model. I don't believe that Gibson applied a cherry finish onto anything until 1958. Its certainly an old looking finish, but it doesn't necessarily take 65 years to achieve that kind of appearance.

Its a boogered Junior for sure, but it could be restored by filling all of the routs and veneering the top.
Thank you. I will measure the studs, and see if I can see the original location of the pickup. Do you have a measurement for the distance from the studs to the dogear ? I blew up the picture of the area around the pickup, and you can see the laquer is darker where the cover for the dogear used to be. The current chrome cover sits on top of the scratchplate, so that location is not the original.

 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,547
Based on the position of the dogear P90 (which may or may not be in its original location) I'd say 1954-1956. In late 1956 the pickup was moved 1/4" away from the bridge.

I seriously doubt that the finish is original, particularly since it appears to be a 1956 or earlier model. I don't believe that Gibson applied a cherry finish onto anything until 1958. Its certainly an old looking finish, but it doesn't necessarily take 65 years to achieve that kind of appearance.

Its a boogered Junior for sure, but it could be restored by filling all of the routs and veneering the top.
Take another look. The pickup rout was altered and is not original, being enlarged. Late 56-58 not earlier. That is not original finish. Your fix is what I did on the two I kept. Cleaned up the crappy routs, inlaid mahogany to fill and veneer. Rerout and finish.
 

MacG

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
14
Take another look. The pickup rout was altered and is not original, being enlarged. Late 56-58 not earlier. That is not original finish. Your fix is what I did on the two I kept. Cleaned up the crappy routs, inlaid mahogany to fill and veneer. Rerout and finish.
My feeling too, I think it is later than 1956. I have played an unmolested ´57, and a DC ´58, and the neck feels closer to the ´58. It is structurally sound, so I could just play it as it is, and restore it at a later point. Do you have some pictures of yours ?
 

DANELECTRO

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Messages
6,320
Thank you. I will measure the studs, and see if I can see the original location of the pickup. Do you have a measurement for the distance from the studs to the dogear ? I blew up the picture of the area around the pickup, and you can see the laquer is darker where the cover for the dogear used to be. The current chrome cover sits on top of the scratchplate, so that location is not the original.


Here are the measurements on a 1955 Junior from the side of the stud's collar to the center of the P90 mounting screw. On the treble side its about 1" [25.4mm] and on the bass side its about 1-13/32" [10.3mm]. In late 1956 the pickup was moved 1/4" away from the bridge, so add about 1/4" [6.4mm] to each of these values. This should help you to determine if the guitar is a 1954 to mid-1956 or a late-1956 to 1958 Junior.

1955 Junior - Stud to Pickup a.jpg1955 Junior - Stud to Pickup b.jpg
 

MacG

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
14
Here are the measurements on a 1955 Junior from the side of the stud's collar to the center of the P90 mounting screw. On the treble side its about 1" [25.4mm] and on the bass side its about 1-13/32" [10.3mm]. In late 1956 the pickup was moved 1/4" away from the bridge, so add about 1/4" [6.4mm] to each of these values. This should help you to determine if the guitar is a 1954 to mid-1956 or a late-1956 to 1958 Junior.

View attachment 20795View attachment 20796
Thank you very much!
 

JIMI55LP

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
1,589
Thanks for your answer. I held it up to bright daylight, and though the laquer is dark, it is tansparent, and there is no trace of a serialnumber that I can see. Even the dark area where the neck joins the headstock where they break, is transparent enough to see that there is no clear signs of a break. The color: Have you ever seen a cherry SC LPJ ? I have not been able to find a picture of an original, they are all reissues, or DC´s from ´58 and onwards. As for the studs: What would I be looking for ?

Thanks again.
I think Tom Witrock has a 1959 JR SC in original cherry finish, but I think your bridge pup is closer to the bridge like 1954,55,56 were. What is the necks mounting angle, as the routed body edge looks very sharp like a 1954 JR. I once owned? 1954 LP JR. had a very flat/shallow neck angle mount with thin eared wraptail to deal with it like the 1953/54 LP GT Models had.
 

paulster

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2023
Messages
7
i would try to get it for $3800 and rock it just the way it is, it looks realy cool!
didnt the chrome cover start mid sixties? love that look! i have some like that i wanted to put them on a butchered melody maker or something someday
 
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