How do you know?

[montesada]

If a 50's Les Paul has had an old, really well-done refin, how can you really tell? I'll use the example of the Chocolate Brown Standard in another thread... Joe B. says it's righteous. How can one be sure of that? What signs do you look for? Does the absence of those signs really prove anything?

 

[oldsongs]

The easiest way is to put a few guitars from the same era next to each other and the refinished instrument, even if done to a high standard, should be obvious. It's also really difficult for even the best to reproduce a Gibson sunburst or goldtop finish and get the color and pattern exact. Then there's the small matter of 60 years of oxidation and exposure.

The brown '55 is a tough one, since there isn't much to compare it with. I'll leave that for more experienced folks to address.

 

[jerns]

Cavity check

 

[sws1]

Cavity check

Aren't cavities taped off during refinish?

Or are you saying, the color inside would be different if it WAS taped off.

If NOT taped off, would the respraying look different over top of a previous finish?

 

[j45]

can't post a picture from where I am right now but I can post many a cavity shot that I guarantee no one would be able to answer that question correctly with any confidence.

 

[j45]

I would like to add that this is a very good question and topic.. also encompasses.a lot of other vintage guitar criteria that just cannot be proven...yet there are those willing to pay top dollar for it . like the one where somebody guarantees all parts are original to the guitar. . how could anyone possibly know for sure unless they were the original owner from day one. I know this scenario is unlikely but what if one week after buying a brand-new 1959 Les Paul some fellows wife splashed fingernail polish remover and boogers the finish, he sends it back to Gibson only a week old to have a top only refinish., 60 years later the guitar has been played a little but still clean, and afterall these years aged evenly everywhere . who could tell? the guitar is a top refin , is that an issue,? Even if you don't know? what if for some odd reason all the parts had to be replaced 3 months after the owner bought it? no parts are original to the guitar, is that an issue?.no one on this earth could possibly tell. this may sound silly but this is why all of this original criteria commanding top dollar seems really silly to me, I know for a fact.. in ways similar to what I've mentioned, this has happened before... more than once to my limited knowledge so I'm sure it is not terribly uncommon....guitars were sold as all original...they weren't but no one will ever know.. except those who knew the story....impossible to tell otherwise.. I used to think the old "looks okay to me" was an evasive answer, I'm starting to believe that is the only answer. anything else is speculation and only a fool would pay more because of it.

 

[jerns]

can't post a picture from where I am right now but I can post many a cavity shot that I guarantee no one would be able to answer that question correctly with any confidence.

I didn't say it was the one and only, works every time, method. But it would be a good place to start looking wouldn't it.

 

[jerns]

Also, the blacklight method seems to be used a fair bit. Maybe someone can post some pics and explain this process a bit, as I'm no expert on it...

 

[mingus]

Also, the blacklight method seems to be used a fair bit. Maybe someone can post some pics and explain this process a bit, as I'm no expert on it...

There are some very talented luthiers out there who can fool a blacklight. That test may or may not tell you anything. It's a tool, but the results are not necessarily absolute.

 

[T.Allen]

An older refin will black light anyway. That is not a tell all.

 

[Tom Wittrock]

If a 50's Les Paul has had an old, really well-done refin, how can you really tell? I'll use the example of the Chocolate Brown Standard in another thread... Joe B. says it's righteous. How can one be sure of that? What signs do you look for? Does the absence of those signs really prove anything?

I rely on experience, both mine and from others. :ganz

 

[Tom Wittrock]

.... like the one where somebody guarantees all parts are original to the guitar. . how could anyone possibly know for sure unless they were the original owner from day one. ...

I've had original owners swear no part was ever changed, while looking at newer Klusons.

 

[landminelenny]

If a 50's Les Paul has had an old, really well-done refin, how can you really tell? I'll use the example of the Chocolate Brown Standard in another thread... Joe B. says it's righteous. How can one be sure of that? What signs do you look for? Does the absence of those signs really prove anything?

You 'know' through experience. Experience isn't something that can be gained on the internet.

 

[sws1]

Question for Tom W.

For that '59 refin that you own, and for which Charlie has pictures posted on his site, how is it that you came to know that guitar was a refin? (Presumably when you acquired it.)

Was it the color? Did someone tell you? Does it look "off" in person? Is it because it's unfaded?

 

[j45]

Question for Tom W.

For that '59 refin that you own, and for which Charlie has pictures posted on his site, how is it that you came to know that guitar was a refin? (Presumably when you acquired it.)

Was it the color? Did someone tell you? Does it look "off" in person? Is it because it's unfaded?

unless I am thinking of another guitar I believe Tom had it refinished himself. I'm sure he will answer, though.

 

[j45]

I've had original owners swear no part was ever changed, while looking at newer Klusons.

lol, been there many times. My favorites are the CBS Fenders the owner swears they bought in 1962.

 

[Rev.WillieVK]

I've had original owners swear no part was ever changed, while looking at newer Klusons.

... or the Les Paul Burst the owner swears he bought in 1958 - he clearly remembers this and that life event happened at the same time! - and the serial is 0 01xx... :hmm

 

[sws1]

unless I am thinking of another guitar I believe Tom had it refinished himself. I'm sure he will answer, though.

I was referring to this guitar:

 

[Tom Wittrock]

Question for Tom W.

For that '59 refin that you own, and for which Charlie has pictures posted on his site, how is it that you came to know that guitar was a refin? (Presumably when you acquired it.)

Was it the color? Did someone tell you? Does it look "off" in person? Is it because it's unfaded?

Here's one of the photos I was sent:

I think this would lead most Burst guys to realize it was refinished.
And, the seller said it was refinished, but I'm certain I would have figured that out anyway. :ganz

Here's a shot I took before I had it restored:

 

[jerns]

I think this would lead most Burst guys to realize it was refinished.
And, the seller said it was refinished, but I'm certain I would have figured that out anyway. :ganz

Here's a shot I took before I had it restored:

Did you happen to do the blacklight test on this one, for the sake of curiosity?