Early 70's Custom Prices

[55Custom]

The `70's Norlin Les Paul's for the most part were crap and not close to the originals. .

Yeah, its like someone looking at a '74 Pinto and saying "Hey that's pretty close to a '68 Mustang." :hee
I remember testing out Norlins back in the day, and you're exactly correct. And guess what, the entire marketplace agreed, and that's why Norlins were the cheapest Les Pauls for 3 decades. They're only going up because there is a demand for "old" guitars. If they were brand new right now, no one would pay $4500 for a guitar like that.

 

[dwagar]

I think a better analogy would be 'that '70 Cuda isn't the same as that '65 Mustang'.
I remember back in the day too, I owned a '68 GT for only about a year, but if you recall, we wanted them all to be '50s LP. None of them were.

IMO the Norlins earned their rights as Rock n Roll guitars, with their own sound.

 

[55Custom]

I remember back in the day too, I owned a '68 GT for only about a year, but if you recall, we wanted them all to be '50s LP. None of them were.

.

^^ I'll never forget how disappointing it was going in the stores and seeing those mini humbucker LP's. Son of bitch! I was always asking this question "Are they making any REAL Les Pauls yet?" A few of the Customs sounded okay but they weren't what I wanted, plus they were expensive.
I wanted a Standard. So when the big onslaught of Standards came out in '76 I tried those and those didn't sound good. The best humbucker guitar I tested during the entire '70's was a brand new 1976 Flying V. But I couldn't get past the shape. I just figured I'd keep looking for LP's. Surely a good Standard would show up. But nope, it never did. By '77 I already started looking into doing a '50's conversion, but kept getting talked out of it.
The problem was that I heard a real Burst played through a Marshall in a small auditorium in the early '70's. So if I hadn't heard that sound before, I wouldn't have been bothered by how a Norlin sounded.

 

[C-4]

Yeah, its like someone looking at a '74 Pinto and saying "Hey that's pretty close to a '68 Mustang." :hee
I remember testing out Norlins back in the day, and you're exactly correct. And guess what, the entire marketplace agreed, and that's why Norlins were the cheapest Les Pauls for 3 decades. They're only going up because there is a demand for "old" guitars. If they were brand new right now, no one would pay $4500 for a guitar like that.

I totally agree, but what you are seeing today is an era inwhich people have not lived through the Norlin Era and haven't experienced them as some of us have, so it's all new to them and they are collecting what have become more expensive guitars. the dealers are excited because there are so many of them that they can re-live the "vintage" era of bursts getting more expensive as time went on. Now that bursts have gone through the roof and they are so rare to begin with that they hype the next thing in line.

Glad I have no desire for them at all.

 

[GlassSnuff]

Glad I have no desire for them at all.

So are we. The prices are going up fast enough as it is. :ganz

The lead player in my high school band had a goldtop. A guy brought a new '68 over to the barn, and there was no comparison. Now, that '68 is awesome. 30 years will do that. It's still no 'burst, but it's not a Historic, either.

Myself, there was a '57 in reach, physically and financially, when I bought my '75. I preferred my Custom's neck, and it's playability. Still do. I fixed the tone with a pair of Ibanez pickups. If you love 'bursts, that's cool, but calling everything else "junk" makes you seem ignorant.

 

[dege]

i always heard Gossard's referred to as being a '71

I could be wrong. Didn't do a search but I do remember that he said in a guitar magazine many years ago that his #1 was a 76.

How could I forget this guy. A lot of these pros could have anything they want. This should more than prove, to each to his own.

 

[Litcrit]

Yeah, its like someone looking at a '74 Pinto and saying "Hey that's pretty close to a '68 Mustang." :hee
I remember testing out Norlins back in the day, and you're exactly correct. And guess what, the entire marketplace agreed, and that's why Norlins were the cheapest Les Pauls for 3 decades. They're only going up because there is a demand for "old" guitars. If they were brand new right now, no one would pay $4500 for a guitar like that.

I used to play Norlin era guitars for a living: professional instruments that MANY pros used day in and day out, recorded with and made a living with.
Are they different from 50's guitars? YES .
Are they "as good"? They're different. See the list of guitar greats that made they're mark with Norlin instruments. VERY LONG and distinguished list.

I went through a "Norlin sucks" phase about10 years ago, I've come back around. When I go to gig, I'm not bringing a 50's guitar, I'm not bringing a fancy new Historic, I'm bringing a banged up, "direct drive" Norlin.

 

[guitarchitecture]

LP Customs from 1970- 1976 are coming up - and fast
And there are very solid reasons:

1. An actual 40 year old WOOD vintage Les Paul - think about that for a moment...
2. A world where players are paying well over 5K fo a REissue (Henry burst).
3. The LP Custom larger headstock equals increased sustain.
4. Pro Re fret to Jumbo costs like $350.
5. Just like in the PAF world - some "T" Tops are better than others-
A great pair of "T" TOPS can destroy virtuall every
other PUP: stinging Eric in the Bridge and wide open Duane Sustain in the neck.
(and they are out there)
6. The improved headstock angle lowers string tension near the nut,
ease of bending / vibrato (for those that remember how),
and if anything, this lower tension increases string vibration:SUSTAIN.
7. Ebony board on a LP opens up completly new sonic territory.
Bridge PUP Sustain can tear through any mix- (thanks Ebony) !!
(Outside Woman Blues?: Disraeli)
8. When Norlin took over, it was NOT as if a switch was thrown overnight.
As in any lumbering Corp - change was Gradual.
Many of the top Luthiers from the "Golden ERA" stayed ahwile
and hand built those early '70's LP Customs.
It is true that some are better than others AND you have to play a few.
Sometimes more than a few- to find a a great one.
They are definitley out there.
When selecting any REAL VINTAGE INSTRUMENT:
HANDS ON IS EVERYTHING.
Actual Playing is knowing- and puts an end to the Flame Throwers doubt.
In NYC alone I have played at least 4 great ones in the past week.
9. It wasn't as if on Dec 31 1969 overnight everything changed-
The Good Wood Still Existed on 1/1/1970- And so did the Great Builders.
In fact straight as arrow- sustain monster- 3 piece Mahogony necks
were designed and contoured by some of these very same
"Golden Era"1968 luthiers"
Don't let the Fretless wonder fool you-
(Spend the extra $350 and go jumbo immediatley).
Some early 1970 Customs have left over 50's wood-
Select a good one and Sustain on for 4k:
Watch it sky rocket to 7K.

 

[simon]

3. The LP Custom larger headstock equals increased sustain.

6. The increased headstock angle improves string contact at the nut,
ease of tuning, and if anything: Increases SUSTAIN.

7. Ebony board on a LP opens up completly new sonic territory.
Bridge PUP Sustain can tear through any mix- (thanks Ebony) !!

:wah

 

[oldenphatt]

I totally agree, but what you are seeing today is an era inwhich people have not lived through the Norlin Era and haven't experienced them as some of us have, so it's all new to them and they are collecting what have become more expensive guitars. the dealers are excited because there are so many of them that they can re-live the "vintage" era of bursts getting more expensive as time went on. Now that bursts have gone through the roof and they are so rare to begin with that they hype the next thing in line.

Glad I have no desire for them at all.

Well, speaking for myself, I not only lived through it, I was right in the middle of it working in a store that sold vintage Gibsons, new Gibsons and re-issues. What's interesting is that there were similar differences of opinion back then with a small minority of people believing that anything that wasn't a fifties Les Paul was a waste of time. To me, it's silly to lump all Gibsons--or even all Les Pauls--made in the seventies and early 80's together under the pejorative "Norlin" moniker. There is a huge difference between an early 70's Custom and a late 70's or early 80's Standard or Deluxe. If what I was into was Standards I suppose I would also have a lower opinion of the Norlin era, but I like Customs and 335s and there were some damn fine ones built during that time--especially early on before Norlin starting their cost cutting in earnest.

 

[dwagar]

Something that just came to mind - back in the old days we never thought to change pickups. If a guitar didn't sound great, sell it and buy a different one. And you didn't replace frets until the old ones were completely worn out.
And you could find lots of used guitars pretty cheap. IIRC my '55 Special was $250 in '67, my '56 Tele was $175 (it was pretty beat up), I passed on (no shit) a '57 Strat for $225 in '68 (well it didn't come with a case), the '68 GT was $325 in late '69 or early '70, etc.
There wasn't anything special or collectable about these back then, they were all just guitars. Buying new pickups for a $300 guitar just didn't seem worthwhile.
And even back then we all wanted bursts, but hell, I never ever saw one for sale.
====
When I picked up my '74 Custom, it had been refretted to Jumbos. I didn't know one of these could play so nice. I changed pickups, pots and caps. IMO it's a great guitar now.

 

[55Custom]

LP Customs from 1970- 1976 are coming up - and fast
And there are very solid reasons:

1. An actual 40 year old WOOD vintage Les Paul - think about that for a moment...
2. A world where players are paying well over 5K fo a REissue (Henry burst).
3. The LP Custom larger headstock equals increased sustain.
4. Pro Re fret to Jumbo costs like $350.
5. Just like in the PAF world - some "T" Tops are better than others-
A great pair of "T" TOPS can destroy virtuall every
other PUP: stinging Eric in the Bridge and wide open Duane Sustain in the neck.
(and they are out there)
6. The increased headstock angle improves string contact at the nut,
ease of tuning, and if anything: Increases SUSTAIN.
7. Ebony board on a LP opens up completly new sonic territory.
Bridge PUP Sustain can tear through any mix- (thanks Ebony) !!
(Outside Woman Blues?: Disraeli)
8. When Norlin took over, it was NOT as if a switch was thrown overnight.
As in any lumbering Corp - change was Gradual.
Many of the top Luthiers from the "Golden ERA" stayed ahwile
and hand built those early '70's LP Customs.
It is true that some are better than others AND you have to play a few.
Sometimes more than a few- to find a a great one.
They are definitley out there.
When selecting any REAL VINTAGE INSTRUMENT:
HANDS ON IS EVERYTHING.
Actual Playing is knowing- and puts an end to the Flame Throwers doubt.
In NYC alone I have played at least 4 great ones in the past week.
9. It wasn't as if on Dec 31 1969 overnight everything changed-
The Good Wood Still Existed on 1/1/1970- And so did the Great Builders.
In fact straight as arrow- sustain monster- 3 piece Mahogony necks
were designed and contoured by some of these very same
"Golden Era"1968 luthiers"
Don't let the Fretless wonder fool you-
(Spend the extra $350 and go jumbo immediatley).
Some early 1970 Customs have left over 50's wood-
Select a good one and Sustain on for 4k:
.

:rofl :rofl :rofl

 

[dege]

The old les pauls are great for collecting. But remember when these guitars came out, they didn't sell very well so they stopped making them. Oh my god! Heaven forbid! I don't know why they didn't do so well. Anybody got a clue why? Maybe some of the pros back then said that gibson is not making them like they use to! :rofl :rofl :rofl

 

[TM1]

LP Customs from 1970- 1976 are coming up - and fast
And there are very solid reasons:

1. An actual 40 year old WOOD vintage Les Paul - think about that for a moment...
Yeah, but it's a sandwich body and laminated neck. Not one piece mahogany like a Fifties. alot of times it's not even a sandwich from the same board.
2. A world where players are paying well over 5K fo a REissue (Henry burst).
3. The LP Custom larger headstock equals increased sustain.
But the fiber overlay kills that. It's not a holly veneer overlay.
4. Pro Re fret to Jumbo costs like $350.
5. Just like in the PAF world - some "T" Tops are better than others-
A great pair of "T" TOPS can destroy virtuall every
other PUP: stinging Eric in the Bridge and wide open Duane Sustain in the neck.
(and they are out there)
Every pickup is wood dependant. I put PAF's in a `75 Goldtop Deluxe I owned and they sounded awful. I pulled them out and put them in an old wood guitar and they sounded great. sold the Goldtop!
6. The increased headstock angle improves string contact at the nut,
ease of tuning, and if anything: Increases SUSTAIN.
Sorry, but the peghead angle is only 14 degrees on those. Originals were steeper at 17 degrees.
7. Ebony board on a LP opens up completly new sonic territory.
Bridge PUP Sustain can tear through any mix- (thanks Ebony) !!
(Outside Woman Blues?: Disraeli)
8. When Norlin took over, it was NOT as if a switch was thrown overnight.
As in any lumbering Corp - change was Gradual.
Many of the top Luthiers from the "Golden ERA" stayed ahwile
and hand built those early '70's LP Customs.
It is true that some are better than others AND you have to play a few.
Sometimes more than a few- to find a a great one.
They are definitley out there.
When selecting any REAL VINTAGE INSTRUMENT:
HANDS ON IS EVERYTHING.
Actually almost all the Vintage Dealers consider that Gibson's Golden Age stopped when Ted McCarty left in 1966. No vintage dealer I know considers any Gibson made after 1966 a "vintage guitar". those are just "Used Guitars".
Actual Playing is knowing- and puts an end to the Flame Throwers doubt.
In NYC alone I have played at least 4 great ones in the past week.
9. It wasn't as if on Dec 31 1969 overnight everything changed-
The Good Wood Still Existed on 1/1/1970- And so did the Great Builders.
In fact straight as arrow- sustain monster- 3 piece Mahogony necks
were designed and contoured by some of these very same
"Golden Era"1968 luthiers"
Don't let the Fretless wonder fool you-
(Spend the extra $350 and go jumbo immediatley).
Some early 1970 Customs have left over 50's wood-
WRONG! That's just a myth and has never been proven true. Gibson didn't let wood sit around for long. anything that was anywhere near built was finished and shipped out right away. Only one rack of 25 Flying V's sat for until 1962.
Get this book:
"Gibson Guitars: Ted McCarty's Golden Era" You'll learn alot about how Gibson's were made and how the factory was run. Arnie Berlin basically ruined Gibson after Ted McCarty left.
Select a good one and Sustain on for 4k:
Watch it sky rocket to 7K.

My `04 R-7 Custom has more sustain and tone than 98% of all of the other guitars I own(I have around 30+ really great guitars). I've been playing since 1965 and have setup and worked on more new Norlin Les Pauls than most of you all here. The two stores I worked in during the `70's were both Gibson/Norlin Dealers. Everyone that came in was in piss-poor playing shape and needed a fret job and setup.
Yes, there is the occasional good one, but those are few and far between. and yes there was some great music made on those, but I knew guys that would go thru 10-15 Les Pauls just to find one good one in the `70's. I took a tour of the Fender Factory in 1973. You'd be appalled at how bad those guitars were made and the really poor attitude that the employees had towards CBS.

 

[rays44]

When will people ever understand that the Norlin era guitars had their own build, feel and sound. Different from what came before and after. I own several and laugh my ass of at the people that just lump these guitars into the catagory of crap. It defenitely was not Gibson's finest hour, but many of the design changes that strayed from "vintage" specs led to a different sounding guitar with generally more sustain and more focus. I like those qualities in many situations the same way I like the qualities of my vintage pieces for other applications. If you take the time to play many guitars and find the one that has "it", you will be rewarded with a fine guitar. Period. That is the secret. The rest is smoke and mirrors.
As for the value of early '70's customs going up, nothing more than supply and demand fulled by the usual bullshit of older being better.

 

[55Custom]

Maybe this varied from one region to another, but does anyone remember what Cherryburst LP Customs were predominately used for in the '70's?

DISCO MUSIC. :hee

Rockers played the black ones, and called the cherryburst customs "sissy guitars". True story.

As for the value of early '70's customs going up, nothing more than supply and demand fulled by the usual bullshit of older being better.

I agree. It's proof that there are a lot of gullible buyers entering the market, and that will make things interesting in the future.

 

[dwagar]

Don't forget, the market is what the market is.

Would I pay an R9 price for a 70s Custom? Nope.

But that doesn't mean it's best from an investment point of view. We'll all just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[55Custom]

The investment point of view is hard to figure because the supply of Norlins is so HUGE. :hee

In addition, there is going to be a big shake out in the distant future based on specs and quality of construction, when other groups of LP's get to a "vintage" age. All the same issues will come up. At that point the vast majority of Norlins will crash and burn.

 

[Bob Womack]

Oh, don't worry about the current crop having any value when they reach "vintage" age. None of the ones here are "all-original". They've all been modified to be more "vintage"!

Bob

 

[D'Mule]

When will people ever understand that the Norlin era guitars had their own build, feel and sound. Different from what came before and after. I own several and laugh my ass of at the people that just lump these guitars into the catagory of crap. It defenitely was not Gibson's finest hour, but many of the design changes that strayed from "vintage" specs led to a different sounding guitar with generally more sustain and more focus. I like those qualities in many situations the same way I like the qualities of my vintage pieces for other applications. If you take the time to play many guitars and find the one that has "it", you will be rewarded with a fine guitar. Period. That is the secret. The rest is smoke and mirrors.
As for the value of early '70's customs going up, nothing more than supply and demand fulled by the usual bullshit of older being better.

Nicely put.