50's wiring vs Modern

[Primative]

Those red arrows are indicating, and not very clearly, that that particular lug should be soldered to the casing for ground.

I thought so! Well, my next call is to RS unless someone can answer here; is the RS wiring modern or '59 style?

 

[59Vampire]

awesome info

 

[ashbass]

I thought so! Well, my next call is to RS unless someone can answer here; is the RS wiring modern or '59 style?

The RS wiring is more like the BlackRose wiring you'll find here LPF Wiring Diagram Library than modern wiring.

 

[GlassSnuff]

The RS and the BR wiring schemes are both "modern".

As mofinco said, what matters is where the volume control's resistive element is relative to the connection of the tone control/capacitor.

The 50's wiring partly compensates for the loss of highs associated with a volume control by increasing the load on the pickup (and thus the resonant peak) as you turn down the volume. That is (using a linear pot for clarity), if you turn your volume down to 1/2 with the modern wiring, the tone control is unaffected as it's in parallel with it. With 50's wiring, the tone control is in series with the volume pot, and the 250K you've turned down the volume is added to the 500K of the tone pot - the pickup sees a 750K path to ground through the capacitor. Thus, with all controls on 10, the new and old are equivalent, but turn down the volume, and the 50's will lose less highs.

When you turn down the tone control halfway with the modern wiring there's no interaction with the volume control as the tone control is connected directly to the pickup, but with the 50's wiring (again, using linear values), if you turn both the tone and volume controls to 1/2, then the pickup is going to see a total of 500K going to ground through the cap - the same as if they were on 10.

Now, all's not perfect in the garden, we use audio pots so things don't track so neatly, and worse, the peak caused by increasing the Q certainly isn't the inverse curve of the roll-off caused by the resistor. Personally, I think it makes a guitar sound like a Telecaster. :hmm

 

[curt1lp]

".. and worse, the peak caused by increasing the Q certainly isn't the inverse curve of the roll-off caused by the resistor. Personally, I think it makes a guitar sound like a Telecaster. "

That info was way beyond my knowledge of electronics so for clarification: Are you saying you feel 50s wiring makes a guitar sound like a tele? That would be because the treble is better retained yes?

 

[GlassSnuff]

Sorry about that. The first bit is just a disclaimer that the 50's wiring doesn't fix the treble roll-off perfectly. Obviously, though, it's good enough for a lot of people.

The last line was meant as a joke (though there may be a tiny bit of truth to it). I prefer the "modern" wiring, myself.

 

[curt1lp]

Thanks GlassSnuff, makes more sense to me now. :salude

 

[Chlsmo]

OK Im dumb to electronics so lemme layman this out for my own clarification and if it helps others thats a + too.

So first thing is.) If I want 50's style wiring all I need to do is take the cap from the middle lug on the volume pot and solder it to the bottom lug of the volume pot? I can leave the cap's relationship to the tone pot unchanged? I dont have to bend and unbend any lugs from the tone pot(s)?

Second thing is.) Once I do this there will be no change in tone when every pot is maxed? The only tonal differences from modern wiring will be when volume is maxed and tone is rolled down somewhat. The tone will retain more of its highs as compared to modern wiring when rolled down?

What I am a little confused about here is what happens when both tone and volume are rolled down to half?

By the way I have my stock pots in both of my les pauls (i think... I cant really tell). I think they are 250K and I guess they are linear taper(?). Is there a way that I can check their resistance with my guitar wired up? How can I tell which kind of taper they have? If I want to remove the grounding plate in my classic do I have to buy new pots (as far as length is concerned)? Im sorry for all the questions (im a noob to this). I will most likely have more questions when these get answered so please be patient with me. :bonk

Thanks, -Matt

 

[GlassSnuff]

Matt,

You are right about the first thing.

The second thing you have a bit backwards. The 50's wiring is a way to prevent the loss of highs as you turn the volume down. So, with both pots on half, you will get more highs with the 50's wiring. With the volumes on 10, the tone pots will act the same, comparing 50's to modern.

Briefly, yes you have to remove the pots to measure them properly, spin the shaft to the middle of it's rotation and measure from the wiper to the outside lug on both sides - if the readings are close, it's linear, if they're way off, it's audio taper. I don't think short-shaft pots are a drop in if you remove the plate, but myself, I'd Dremel away until they fit. More choices with short shafts.

Cheers!

 

[Chlsmo]

GlassSnuff thanks man! Yeah I meant volume rolled down on my second thing there (it was almost 3am my time when I posted last). Thanks for the info. I will switch the cap when I get home tonight and check it out. Does anyone have a detailed pic of a potentiometer with some of the parts labeled? I dont know what the "wiper" is exactly. My electronics experience is just that I have put in my own pickups on my les pauls. But I would like to be able to do some tricksy things a la Jimmy Page type wiring etc. (if I want to). I dont know about the dremel, I dont think Im that handy yet. Are there any tone considerations about the mounting plate?

 

[Dave Carpenter]

GlassSnuff thanks man! Yeah I meant volume rolled down on my second thing there (it was almost 3am my time when I posted last). Thanks for the info. I will switch the cap when I get home tonight and check it out. Does anyone have a detailed pic of a potentiometer with some of the parts labeled? I dont know what the "wiper" is exactly. My electronics experience is just that I have put in my own pickups on my les pauls. But I would like to be able to do some tricksy things a la Jimmy Page type wiring etc. (if I want to). I dont know about the dremel, I dont think Im that handy yet. Are there any tone considerations about the mounting plate?

The RS wiring is more like the BlackRose wiring you'll find here LPF Wiring Diagram Library than modern wiring.

The drawings that ashbass has in the link above are some of the best I have seen for guitar work. Click on it:

The center lug on a "guitar" pot is connected to the wiper that moves across the resistance material allowing the adjustment. For common guitar pots the other two lugs (the two outside lugs) are connected to each side of the complete resistance path so you will measure approximately 500K Ohms or 250K Ohms for guitar work, depending on what the pot is rated at, if you put your dc resistance meter probes across them and it is out of the circuit. The direction of the actual operation of the control is determined by the connections to the outside lugs.

I hope this helps.