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1960 Gibson Korina Explorer 011172 " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

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Big Hern

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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

Gary.. Nobody is making a basket full of money on this forum. It's a labor of love for our host. :2cool

JB, it was a joke and my infamous sarcasm... Clark Kent did finally call... He's a cool dude, but living in Ohio, I figured he was calling me from a flip phone or The Brick sitting in a pickup truck eating corn on the cob... Ha! He's good hillbilly, but life long college football rivals! Michigan/Ohio... Chumps!!! Ha!!! BH. PS, please send me $50 and we'll call it even... Yes!!!
 

F-Hole

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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

I have known the guitar for 10 years, was there when it was bought in San Rafael, have had it apart various times, compared it to some famous Explorers (you’ve probably played ‘em) and can find nothing wrong with it.

A question for the curious Clive, given you're the seller's expert.

How many real Korina Explorers had you examined in detail prior to your authenticating the guitar for the Harrisons when they bought if from Kirk?

Let's exclude the ex-Entwhistle "Explorer" for now.
 

F-Hole

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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

Yes, really. :rolleyes

And, I would appreciate a serious answer to my question.

It was a serious answer Tom. From what you've said in the past, we largely hold the same view. Any Gibson branded product that wasn't made in their factory, or doesn't have Gibson's approval, constitutes criminal trademark infringement. It's that simple to my mind. I don't buy into the "replica" BS. They're fakes, pure and simple.

Some people make these guitars to deceive and defraud, others don't. It doesn't change what they are. Mere semantics, as you say. Moreover, others assist them by providing services like spraying and ageing, with the objective being to deceive.

Let me pose you a rhetorical question. If you were in the business of making and/or refinishing guitars to mimic genuine original vintage instruments as closely as you were able, would you knowingly take commissions from the most notorious villains in the guitar business if you so much as suspected that they would pass them off as genuine and unaltered vintage guitars?

Or, to put it another way, is anybody reading this thread in the market for a vintage custom colour Strat?
 
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Big Hern

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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

Gary.. Nobody is making a basket full of money on this forum. It's a labor of love for our host. :2cool

JB, it was a joke and my infamous sarcasm... Clark Kent did finally call... He's a cool dude, but living in Ohio, I figured he was calling me from a flip phone or The Brick sitting in a pickup truck eating corn on the cob... Ha! He's good hillbilly, but life long college football rivals! Michigan/Ohio... Chumps!!! Ha!!! BH
 

Big Hern

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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

A question for the curious Clive, given you're the seller's expert.

How many real Korina Explorers had you examined in detail prior to your authenticating the guitar for the Harrisons when they bought if from Kirk?

Let's exclude the ex-Entwhistle "Explorer" for now.

I think you might want to ask the old man in the shoe.... BH
 

F-Hole

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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

I think you might want to ask the old man in the shoe.... BH

Clive's your nominated expert, your "1%'er".

It's a simple enough question.
 

surfreak

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May 6, 2002
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1,113
Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

1960_gibson_explorer_fake_tuners.jpg


First one to spot the main 'anomalie' in this pic wins a prize. Big Hern, you don't get to play on this one. For the viewers at home only.

Interestingly, the lacquer checking stops at the headstock wing glue line. A razor job would have likely cut across the whole headstock.

Nevertheless, I sure hope nobody buys, and pays for, this guitar expecting a real 1960 Gibson Explorer.
 
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J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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9,925
Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

Man I remember when vintage guitars were just used guitars, and it was a lot of fun. I'm sooooo glad I got out of this market years (decades) ago. Not that I could/would ever dump 3/4 of $1M on a guitar...

Sure makes me appreciate guys like PRS who had mad skills and used them to create something original.
 

Clive Brown

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Jun 29, 2002
Messages
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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

To whom it may concern!
It seems that various forum members don’t know me, don’t trust me, like to call me a con man or faker and, in general, don’t believe a word that I am saying.
All this appears to be because I am defending the 1960 Gibson Explorer!

So, I will explain how I came to be involved with the guitar, are you sitting comfortably?
This may take a while.......

First of all I will point out that I am not, never have been, or ever will be, an employee of Music Ground. I work independently, I have been asked to authenticate and advise many dealers, shops, collectors and auction houses over the years that I have been restoring guitars, which I do as it is part of my job and expertise.

In 2006 at my workshop I received a call from a member of this forum who was a long time employee of Music Ground in England. He asked me if I would be willing to travel to
California to authenticate a 1960 Explorer being sold by a member of Metallica, as the shop had a customer who wanted to buy it.

I agreed to this and eventually arrived at the studio in San Rafael. I was then shown the guitar and taken to the workshop where I took it apart and checked that everything was correct about the guitar, (there were 2 changed screws in the jack plate) everything else was original. The guitar had been kept in a touring case but was sold in the case it had previously been bought in, which was home made. A deal had been arranged and the guitar was bought.

When the guitar arrived at the MG shop in England, I and another respected restorer were asked to visit and check the guitar again, which we did, and agreed it was completely original except for the 2 screws which were replaced with screws of the correct type. Whilst the guitar was at the shop it was played regularly I’m told, by the forum member who thought at that time, it was the best guitar he had played.

The guitar was then, as I was told, delivered to the customer in Sweden. It was taken apart and checked by his guitar technician who agreed it was a fine and original guitar, the customer was happy and took possession of the Explorer.
Unfortunately for the guitar an unreasonable amount of history was asked for, which could not possibly have been located in a short space of time..... so, an unreasonable amount of history was created, which had nothing to do with me, in the form of a rather ridiculous letter and photograph of a supposed original owner. This was pure fiction and should never have accompanied the guitar.

I understand that the customer was happy with the Explorer and remained so until said forum member and employee of Music Ground had a disagreement with the company and left their employment. Strangely(!), shortly after that, the guitar became a fake! It isn’t, although that particular letter and photograph provenance was! If the forum member has a grievance with his previous employers, that is fair enough! But there is no reason to try to destroy the originality of this guitar.

On hearing of this and wanting to make sure I was correct in my authentication assessment, I personally, over a period of time, tracked through various owners the history of the guitar back to 1985.
This history will be provided to whoever may buy the guitar in the future.

I have stood by this 1960 Gibson Explorer for 10 years and will continue to do so because
I believe it to be ORIGINAL and can find no reason now or previously why it isn’t.

So all you non believing, keyboard warriors, prove it with concrete evidence that actually makes sense, or Kiss my Ass!

Clive Brown
 

rob livesey

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Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
654
Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

It was a serious answer Tom. From what you've said in the past, we largely hold the same view. Any Gibson branded product that wasn't made in their factory, or doesn't have Gibson's approval, constitutes criminal trademark infringement. It's that simple to my mind. I don't buy into the "replica" BS. They're fakes, pure and simple.

Some people make these guitars to deceive and defraud, others don't. It doesn't change what they are. Mere semantics, as you say. Moreover, others assist them by providing services like spraying and ageing, with the objective being to deceive.

Let me pose you a rhetorical question. If you were in the business of making and/or refinishing guitars to mimic genuine original vintage instruments as closely as you were able, would you knowingly take commissions from the most notorious villains in the guitar business if you so much as suspected that they would pass them off as genuine and unaltered vintage guitars?

Or, to put it another way, is anybody reading this thread in the market for a vintage custom colour Strat?

Ooof, did you see that uppercut to the jaw Frank?

I did Harry, I think little Marco has won this round on points.

But there's a few rounds to go yet Frank. Question is, will it go to a decision or will there be a knockout?

It's hard to tell yet Harry, maybe it will all be down to what The Kid has to say. We'll just have to sit it out and see which way it goes.
 
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F-Hole

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Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,107
Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

How many real Korina Explorers had you examined in detail prior to your authenticating the guitar for the Harrisons when they bought if from Kirk?

Was this question too difficult to address directly?
 

abalonevintage

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Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Messages
3,186
Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

Interestingly, the lacquer checking stops at the headstock wing glue line. A razor job would have likely cut across the whole headstock.

Some relic guys use razor blades to "start' the check where they want...not to be the actual checking lines.

There are many approaches to aging an instrument.

Man I remember when vintage guitars were just used guitars, and it was a lot of fun.

Boy, isn't that the truth...now most of the cool stuff is out of the budget range of the average Joe. They'll never know how much fun it was.
 

rob livesey

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
654
Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

To whom it may concern!
It seems that various forum members don’t know me, don’t trust me, like to call me a con man or faker and, in general, don’t believe a word that I am saying.
All this appears to be because I am defending the 1960 Gibson Explorer!

So, I will explain how I came to be involved with the guitar, are you sitting comfortably?
This may take a while.......

First of all I will point out that I am not, never have been, or ever will be, an employee of Music Ground. I work independently, I have been asked to authenticate and advise many dealers, shops, collectors and auction houses over the years that I have been restoring guitars, which I do as it is part of my job and expertise.

In 2006 at my workshop I received a call from a member of this forum who was a long time employee of Music Ground in England. He asked me if I would be willing to travel to
California to authenticate a 1960 Explorer being sold by a member of Metallica, as the shop had a customer who wanted to buy it.

I agreed to this and eventually arrived at the studio in San Rafael. I was then shown the guitar and taken to the workshop where I took it apart and checked that everything was correct about the guitar, (there were 2 changed screws in the jack plate) everything else was original. The guitar had been kept in a touring case but was sold in the case it had previously been bought in, which was home made. A deal had been arranged and the guitar was bought.

When the guitar arrived at the MG shop in England, I and another respected restorer were asked to visit and check the guitar again, which we did, and agreed it was completely original except for the 2 screws which were replaced with screws of the correct type. Whilst the guitar was at the shop it was played regularly I’m told, by the forum member who thought at that time, it was the best guitar he had played.

The guitar was then, as I was told, delivered to the customer in Sweden. It was taken apart and checked by his guitar technician who agreed it was a fine and original guitar, the customer was happy and took possession of the Explorer.
Unfortunately for the guitar an unreasonable amount of history was asked for, which could not possibly have been located in a short space of time..... so, an unreasonable amount of history was created, which had nothing to do with me, in the form of a rather ridiculous letter and photograph of a supposed original owner. This was pure fiction and should never have accompanied the guitar.

I understand that the customer was happy with the Explorer and remained so until said forum member and employee of Music Ground had a disagreement with the company and left their employment. Strangely(!), shortly after that, the guitar became a fake! It isn’t, although that particular letter and photograph provenance was! If the forum member has a grievance with his previous employers, that is fair enough! But there is no reason to try to destroy the originality of this guitar.

On hearing of this and wanting to make sure I was correct in my authentication assessment, I personally, over a period of time, tracked through various owners the history of the guitar back to 1985.
This history will be provided to whoever may buy the guitar in the future.

I have stood by this 1960 Gibson Explorer for 10 years and will continue to do so because
I believe it to be ORIGINAL and can find no reason now or previously why it isn’t.

So all you non believing, keyboard warriors, prove it with concrete evidence that actually makes sense, or Kiss my Ass!

Clive Brown

.
 

Clive Brown

New member
Joined
Jun 29, 2002
Messages
22
Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

Clive...please stop embarrassing yourself pretending to know what I am holding. I own 6 vintage Marshall amps none of which you have seen or will ever see.

Good luck with the Heist..
Maybe one day they will make a movie about the caper.
"Lock Stock and One Fake Explorer. "

The brazenness of this whole thing is astounding.


Joe B

Joe,
I have asked you for the name of the person who said I made the Les Paul that you saw, also the names of people that I have (you say) conned. You have not provided either therefore I assume you have made these accusations up, for what reason I am at a loss to explain!
I have also asked you to contact friends of yours who have known me for a number of years and to ask them if the accusations you are directing at me are true, this is also something else you seems to be incapable of doing......... Why?....... Are you afraid of the answer!

Clive
 

richard henry

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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

This heavy thread needs a light musical interlude.



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EHJymLCET9I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>​
 

Beano Geno

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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

One of the best threads ever! :dude:
 

Big Hern

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Re: 1960 Gibson Korina Explorer " Kandye Kane " Guitars West Owned on ebay

Ooof, did you see that uppercut to the jaw Frank?

I did Harry, I think little Marco has won this round on points.

But there's a few rounds to go yet Frank. Question is, will it go to a decision or will there be a knockout?

It's hard to tell yet Harry, maybe it will all be down to what The Kid has to say. We'll just have to sit it out and see which way it goes.

Please, would some one explain to what A Kid is ??? A small child? A Kid? A youthful Billy goat... Now I'm confused? It's up to A Kid??? I'll pass!!! Hold it! You mean Perry???? Well for heavens sake, why didn't you say that. I thought you meant Albert!!! Little Marco, that is not happening!!! But thanks, BH
 
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