les pauls can't be tuned

igloobob · Feb 25, 2020

I recently got into les pauls after playing strats for 20+ years and despite all the things I love about les pauls, the short scale really accentuates how out of tune guitars are. Every time I pick up a les paul I spend most of the time trying to tune the thing. All guitars have the same problem, but the short scale of the les paul makes it much more pronounced than a strat (or anything with 25.5 scale). I have a les paul that is otherwise a really gre4at guitar. Perfect tone, really low action, fit anf finish are perfect, etc How do you get used to this? Has anyone tried compensated nuts or have any advice on how to get these guitars to sound right? If your experience is just playing les pauls do you eventually just grow to like an out of tune guitar?

About compensated nuts, I can see how they would help with open strings, but how does a compensated nut help to keep fretted notes in tune?

P.S. If criticism of Les Pauls offends you then don't respond. I shouldn't have to say that, but internet forums tend to attract losers that do nothing but scour forums looking for reasons to be offended.

brandtkronholm · Feb 25, 2020

It is possible to fine-tune your LP to the area of the fret board you spend the most time playing. This is the magic of the tune-o-matic bridge. Just like the individual saddles on strats, LPs (Gibson electrics in general) have similar little gizmos built into the bridge. They require a flat head screwdriver to adjust.

Beyond this, Google is your friend.

Welcome to the forum!

duaneflowers · Feb 25, 2020

If you're having tuning issues it is most like a setup problem, not a design one. I've got quite a few Les Pauls and ALL of them stay in tune perfectly. I can even take one out of the case after a couple months and it is still in tune. So my advise would be to get a proper setup... :salude

igloobob · Feb 25, 2020

brandtkronholm said:
It is possible to fine-tune your LP to the area of the fret board you spend the most time playing.
B

Welcome to the forum!

This is what I wind up doing. If I'm learning a song then I tune the guitar for that song. When I don't feel like tuning my guitar differently for every song, I'll just play my strat (which has the same problem but nowhere near as noticeable). The problem is I really like les pauls and want to find a more reasonable solution than different tuning for every song

igloobob · Feb 25, 2020

duaneflowers said:
If you're having tuning issues it is most like a setup problem, not a design one. :salude

I hate to tell you, but if you can't hear how out of tune your les paul is then you've got a tin ear. NO guitar is in tune on every fret. EVERY fretted instrument has this design flaw. I can prove it-using a tuner tune your D string (or whatever string you prefer) until the tuning is perfect. Now fret the string on the first fret. Sharp, isn't it? Go up the neck fretting each fret and you'll notice that the tuning is all over the place. Sure, if you have high action the problem will be worse, but you can't lower the action enough to get rid of the problem. There's no setup that can eliminate the problem.

garywright · Feb 25, 2020

they are close enough for rock n roll ..hot nasty rock ‘n roll.
Eleanor Roosevelt

KR1 · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
I hate to tell you, but if you can't hear how out of tune your les paul is then you've got a tin ear. NO guitar is in tune on every fret. EVERY fretted instrument has this design flaw. I can prove it-using a tuner tune your D string (or whatever string you prefer) until the tuning is perfect. Now fret the string on the first fret. Sharp, isn't it? Go up the neck fretting each fret and you'll notice that the tuning is all over the place. Sure, if you have high action the problem will be worse, but you can't lower the action enough to get rid of the problem. There's no setup that can eliminate the problem.

i-bob,

Respectfully, this topic and all of its machinations are older and more well-traveled than the Santa Fe Trail. I think you'll find a very experienced bunch of guitar tuners (the dudes, not the accessories) here who have a professional-level knowledge of the imperfections of scale length, fret placement relative to string gauge, nut compensation and all of the associated tricks, failings, and lore. As others are politely suggesting: A good setup creates an excellent compromise between the competing imperfections. And as you point out, all fretted, stringed instruments are built and tweaked around the same bit of physics.

Not every player is the best choice for every guitar but most guitars will do exactly what they're told.

Texas Blues · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
I recently got into les pauls after playing strats for 20+ years and despite all the things I love about les pauls, the short scale really accentuates how out of tune guitars are. Every time I pick up a les paul I spend most of the time trying to tune the thing. All guitars have the same problem, but the short scale of the les paul makes it much more pronounced than a strat (or anything with 25.5 scale). I have a les paul that is otherwise a really gre4at guitar. Perfect tone, really low action, fit anf finish are perfect, etc How do you get used to this? Has anyone tried compensated nuts or have any advice on how to get these guitars to sound right? If your experience is just playing les pauls do you eventually just grow to like an out of tune guitar?

About compensated nuts, I can see how they would help with open strings, but how does a compensated nut help to keep fretted notes in tune?

P.S. If criticism of Les Pauls offends you then don't respond. I shouldn't have to say that, but internet forums tend to attract losers that do nothing but scour forums looking for reasons to be offended.

I swear.

You can't live with these people.

igloobob · Feb 25, 2020

KR1 said:
i-bob,

Respectfully, this topic and all of its machinations are older and more well-traveled than the Santa Fe Trail. I think you'll find a very experienced bunch of guitar tuners (the dudes, not the accessories) here who have a professional-level knowledge of the imperfections of scale length, fret placement relative to string gauge, nut compensation and all of the associated tricks, failings, and lore. As others are politely suggesting: A good setup creates an excellent compromise between the competing imperfections. And as you point out, all fretted, stringed instruments are built and tweaked around the same bit of physics.

Not every player is the best choice for every guitar but most guitars will do exactly what they're told.

With so many enlightened professionals you would figure one of you could answer my question but so far no such luck. I'm surprised no one has asked "Have you tried turning the guitar off and then back on?" yet.

KR1 · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
With so many enlightened professionals you would figure one of you could answer my question but so far no such luck. I'm surprised no one has asked "Have you tried turning the guitar off and then back on?" yet.

Turn your guitar off.

I'll be right back.

Tom Wittrock · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
I recently got into les pauls after playing strats for 20+ years and despite all the things I love about les pauls, the short scale really accentuates how out of tune guitars are. Every time I pick up a les paul I spend most of the time trying to tune the thing. All guitars have the same problem, but the short scale of the les paul makes it much more pronounced than a strat (or anything with 25.5 scale). I have a les paul that is otherwise a really gre4at guitar. Perfect tone, really low action, fit anf finish are perfect, etc How do you get used to this? Has anyone tried compensated nuts or have any advice on how to get these guitars to sound right? If your experience is just playing les pauls do you eventually just grow to like an out of tune guitar?

About compensated nuts, I can see how they would help with open strings, but how does a compensated nut help to keep fretted notes in tune?

P.S. If criticism of Les Pauls offends you then don't respond. I shouldn't have to say that, but internet forums tend to attract losers that do nothing but scour forums looking for reasons to be offended.

):rofl(

Tom Wittrock · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
I hate to tell you, but if you can't hear how out of tune your les paul is then you've got a tin ear. NO guitar is in tune on every fret. EVERY fretted instrument has this design flaw. I can prove it-using a tuner tune your D string (or whatever string you prefer) until the tuning is perfect. Now fret the string on the first fret. Sharp, isn't it? Go up the neck fretting each fret and you'll notice that the tuning is all over the place. Sure, if you have high action the problem will be worse, but you can't lower the action enough to get rid of the problem. There's no setup that can eliminate the problem.

Considering most players don't have this problem, I'd say you are cursed. :dang

Bummer dude. :2cool

Tom Wittrock · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
With so many enlightened professionals you would figure one of you could answer my question but so far no such luck. I'm surprised no one has asked "Have you tried turning the guitar off and then back on?" yet.

It just keeps getting more hilarious! :hee :laugh2:

deytookerjaabs · Feb 25, 2020

No, the OP is 100% right.

If you ever bothered to sit through piano teaching and ear training you can hear the intonation differences in a guitar immediately. The focus/voice of certain guitars can make it stick out even more. We used to discuss this a lot in guitar ensemble, one year I had 6 other dudes and all our guitars though properly intonated per the the 12'th fret had subtle amounts of off-ness.

Yet, compare that to a cello where your finger, not a fret, determines pitch, lol.

Of course, if you play a guitar and you want MIDI level temperament I submit you're being a corny ass mofo (no offense) who doesn't apparently hear the entire history of the instrument.

Get an electric piano, a MIDI guitar, or a wiggle fret guitar. Then you can start a Yanni cover band.

Cogswell · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
...internet forums tend to attract losers that do nothing but scour forums looking for reasons to be offended.

This is true

Texas Blues · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
With so many enlightened professionals you would figure one of you could answer my question but so far no such luck. I'm surprised no one has asked "Have you tried turning the guitar off and then back on?" yet.

There was a government study.

Conducted by top scientists.

They concluded in their report.

That one in four people.

Are stupid.

And therefore.

If 3 of your friends appear normal.

Then.

Its YOU!

igloobob · Feb 25, 2020

Tom Wittrock said:
Considering most players don't have this problem, I'd say you are cursed. :dang

Bummer dude. :2cool

If you don't have the problem it just means that you don't have the ears to hear it. If you can't even hear the notes your guitar is making then why do you even bother playing?

igloobob · Feb 25, 2020

Texas Blues said:
There was a government study.

Conducted by top scientists.

They concluded in their report.

That one in four people.

Are stupid.

And therefore.

If 3 of your friends appear normal.

Then.

Its YOU!

Thank God you're here taking the heat off the other three of us commenting in this thread.

duaneflowers · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
I hate to tell you, but if you can't hear how out of tune your les paul is then you've got a tin ear.

OK Justin Bieber, I'll just have to take your word for that... in which case (no disrespect intended) first I'd recommend you learn to play... THEN get a proper setup. If that doesn't work you might try slide guitar or underwater basket weaving as an alternative coz standard guitar really doesn't appear to be for you... :rofl

deytookerjaabs · Feb 25, 2020

igloobob said:
If you don't have the problem it just means that you don't have the ears to hear it. If you can't even hear the notes your guitar is making then why do you even bother playing?

Your strat is still out of tune, you're just used to it.

les pauls can't be tuned

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