current production es-335 versions

DoubleBoogie · Jan 1, 2009

Troels said:
Maybe you should read ALL the posts before repeating most of the mistakes (or maybe just post #93 by Bhodie).

And maybe you can say Mark knows his stuff - but not much about how Gibson have reorganized their custom shops in 2007 (and neither do you). That's evident to everybody.

Until this very moment you, mark and others have only said that there are lot of differences between the way they make ES-335 in Nashville vs. Memphis... BUT - nobody can tell specifically WHAT the differences in the way they build ES-335's are. What are they?????

I can show (on videos) hundreds of similarities - in fact only similarties. Even when they put the expensive Eric Clapton signature together. Nashville and Memphis share all materials (even the poplar core in the lamination) most hardware and all the machines used in the building proces - not to forget the COA and the Gold Warranty for Custom Shop Guitars. They also seem - from time to time - to share alle the issues such as delaminated bodies, twisted necks, oragnge peeling finish, and all sorts of other different issues more or less serious (I think the experienced Mark knows that too).

I do understand that people who have payed the tip of a F-16 for a Historic want's to believe every detail is made by hand by luthiers that arrive in busses every morning from good old Kalamazoo with their huge hand driven plywood presses, hot hide glue pots, violin makers hand tool, and original blueprints. But that's of course just wishfull thinking among Historic owners. Add to that, that the eldest employees these days in Nasville began at Gibson in the Norlin days - which we normally very much wan't to forget about. And the fact is of course, that Historics are build on an assemblyline with all possible processes automated - just like they do in Memphis (see the videos).

Anyway... It looks like you have the secret - please share.

Troels....I read your post to one of my dogs and just had to take a picture of his reaction to share with Angus and Bhodie. :rofl

You can try to argue all you want that the Memphis guitars are the equal of the Nashville historics, but the real facts are that they aren't. They are a lower cost production guitar and Gibson markets them that way. The resale market reflects this as well. The fact that they now have certificates doesn't change the fact that they sell both new and used for much less than the Historics. You might want to consider the argument that they are a better value, but not that they are the equal of the Historic. I can say with confidence now since I have played a bunch of both the Memphis guitars and the Nashville Historics that the Historics have ALL been better guitars in terms of both sound and playability. And IMHO, they are well worth the premium in price.

tuberide · Jan 1, 2009

It's not the building processes that are so much in question. It's the differences in specifications between the Memphis and Historic 335's. The '59 Historic is the only 335 in production that has a solid centerblock (no cut out), though the '63 has a cutout. Both have the wide tenon. The Memphis tenon is narrower and rounded not chamfered. Another difference is narrower binding on the fingerboard and no stamped serial number on the back of the headstock.
I still don't understand why Gibson doesn't use the old style crown inlay on the headstock. They have them and are used in their acoustic lines.
These differences are minor but are there none the less. The question comes down to are you willing to cough up a significant higher price to have it.

Troels · Jan 1, 2009

DoubleBoogie said:
Troels....I read your post to one of my dogs and just had to take a picture of his reaction to share with Angus and Bhodie. :rofl

You can try to argue all you want that the Memphis guitars are the equal of the Nashville historics, but the real facts are that they aren't. They are a lower cost production guitar and Gibson markets them that way. The resale market reflects this as well. The fact that they now have certificates doesn't change the fact that they sell both new and used for much less than the Historics. You might want to consider the argument that they are a better value, but not that they are the equal of the Historic. I can say with confidence now since I have played a bunch of both the Memphis guitars and the Nashville Historics that the Historics have ALL been better guitars in terms of both sound and playability. And IMHO, they are well worth the premium in price.

I'm not talking about prices. I know that very well and a guitar bought relatively more expensive will alway stay rerlatively more expensive. That's not my point. I would just like somebody to tell me difference in the way they are made... that's all. And if they really are better build (and now we hear that they also PLAY better) then there really must be significant differences in the way they are made or the materials used... doesn't that sound logical to you??? I don't understand when you and others have such a great knowledge about the quality and sound of these guitars - but none of you can point out any of the differences in the way they are made.

And tuberide... you won't seriously tell me that this LITTLE cut out in the center block is the difference??? We are talking about a guitar that's around $ 2,000 more expensive... and certainly can't see how narrowe bindings and a left out serial number change the tone/overall quality. Try to measure out the tenons and then give a good explanation how the VERY SMALL difference in size incfluence the sound... It doesn't.

I've always meant that the term "Historic" was a marketing thing as the ES-335 Nashville Historic lacks most historic features: Mahogany end block and neck block, mahogany kerfed linings, the use of hot hide glue for assembling and the use of urea formaldehyde glue for laminations.

PS I like the dog

I do understand the expression in it's face

Reminds me of a Grand Danois (Big Dane) dog own by the drummer in a band I played in many years ago. It was alway around when we played in his house - laying with the front legs crossed over his head to cover the ears. It loved the company but absolutely not the music

tuberide · Jan 1, 2009

Troels said:
And tuberide... you won't seriously tell me that this LITTLE cut out in the center block is the difference??? We are talking about a guitar that's around $ 2,000 more expensive... and certainly can't see how narrowe bindings and a left out serial number change the tone/overall quality. Try to measure out the tenons and then give a good explanation how the VERY SMALL difference in size incfluence the sound... It doesn't.

I've always meant that the term "Historic" was a marketing thing as the ES-335 Nashville Historic lacks most historic features: Mahogany end block and neck block, mahogany kerfed linings, the use of hot hide glue for assembling and the use of urea formaldehyde glue for laminations.

Agreed Troels....:jim

Little Jake · Jan 1, 2009

I had a 2001 production 335, which I traded in on a used 2003 historic '59 335--the historic had much more of the sound I wanted, and now that I've swapped out the gibson electronics with pots and caps from Dr. V, it's my go-to guitar, just awesome.

Anyway, two of the major build differences between production and historic 335s, at that time, were neck angle and finish. Neck angle on the production 335 was probably close to 6 degrees: for normal action, the bridge and stop bar sat high off the body, and the pick-ups sat high above the rings. On the historic, the neck angle is lower, maybe 4 degrees or so: for the same action, the bridge and stop bar sit much closer to the body, and the pick-ups sit lower in the rings.

The finish on the production 335 was noticeably thicker and "softer" (more plasticizer?) than on the historic. The historic finish is thinner--even at the time I acquired it in 2004, it had noticably settled in to some of the grain--and harder.

Of course, that was then...I don't know if these differences exist between the Memphis Custom 335 and the Nashville Historic 335 today. Looking at some dealer photos of the Memphis 335, the neck angle and associated differences appear to still be there.

I'm glad to see that the Memphis 335's now have plain tops--those flamey tops on the older production 335's never seemed quite right. In fact, the Memphis tops look better to my eye than some of the historic tops...

hipbluescat · Jan 1, 2009

Troels

When you change production processes like use difference glues, bindings, change the dimensions then the costs simply increase.

This is especially true when you have to have more people handling these instruments due to these different processes.

Consequently there is a increase in costs and labour would be the most costly item.

Making a musical instrument is like baking a cake. If you start changing various basic ingredients and processes then each change is going to contribute to a degree of change. When you agregate all these changes then there is a major departure/change that will be perceived by the consumer.

Some people will notice this and find these changes are important to them and others could not give a damn.

hipbluescat · Jan 1, 2009

I also just wish that Gibson would simply produce the best of instruments like they did in the 50's and 60's and offer a variety of neck shapes.

I really wonder why they have changed there processes from the 60's and kept getting it wrong!!!!

DoubleBoogie · Jan 1, 2009

hipbluescat said:
I also just wish that Gibson would simply produce the best of instruments like they did in the 50's and 60's and offer a variety of neck shapes.

I really wonder why they have changed there processes from the 60's and kept getting it wrong!!!!

Totally agree as well! :3zone

Troels · Jan 2, 2009

Little Jake said:
I had a 2001 production 335, which I traded in on a used 2003 historic '59 335--the historic had much more of the sound I wanted, and now that I've swapped out the gibson electronics with pots and caps from Dr. V, it's my go-to guitar, just awesome.

Anyway, two of the major build differences between production and historic 335s, at that time, were neck angle and finish. Neck angle on the production 335 was probably close to 6 degrees: for normal action, the bridge and stop bar sat high off the body, and the pick-ups sat high above the rings. On the historic, the neck angle is lower, maybe 4 degrees or so: for the same action, the bridge and stop bar sit much closer to the body, and the pick-ups sit lower in the rings.

The finish on the production 335 was noticeably thicker and "softer" (more plasticizer?) than on the historic. The historic finish is thinner--even at the time I acquired it in 2004, it had noticably settled in to some of the grain--and harder.

Of course, that was then...I don't know if these differences exist between the Memphis Custom 335 and the Nashville Historic 335 today. Looking at some dealer photos of the Memphis 335, the neck angle and associated differences appear to still be there.

I'm glad to see that the Memphis 335's now have plain tops--those flamey tops on the older production 335's never seemed quite right. In fact, the Memphis tops look better to my eye than some of the historic tops...

We often talk about particular years in the lifespan of the 335... personally I would never buy a 2001 (because I did once and it was terrible made - but sounded good). That said I'll agree that the finish on the Memphis guitars are more factory-like than the Nashville guitars. Unfortunately that doesn't make the Nashville finishing particularly "custom shop-like" either. But probably thinner and including more handwork. All in all my point is, that there is not a BIG difference between the way a Nashville ES-335 are made compared to a Memphis one.

Hipbluescat are right. Things change and some processes in building an ES-335 may even have improved over the years - and (maybe) most people don't even notice any type of changes at all.

Why don't they build them the way they used to??? Take the gluing for instance. It took a SKILLED craftsman/luthier to glue the top on the rims with hot hide glue. Compared to todays glue it was even a "science" itself just to mix the glue and to use it at the right temperature and viscosity. You had less than 30 sekunds to apply it, adjust the top and clamp it. I don't think Gibson have many employees left who master this old art. Using modern glue you can call any person in from the street - show him or her how to do it and then they are Gibson "luthiers"... in Nashville or Memphis makes no difference.

BUT - the glue itself DOES make a difference. Hot hide glue bonds to the surface in an a very complicated eletro-chemical way only including the very surface atoms whereas for instance TiteBonds cross linking glues and TiteBond Original (yellow carpenters glue that Gibson use) penetrates the wood surface and mute it in an for guitars unpleasent way (but good for furnitures...). When I knock at the body of my 1960 and compare it to when I knock my 2008 there is a HUGE difference in the sound response coming from the two guitars. Some of the difference in sound comes from the different glues used and of course from thicker finish. Hide glue becomes glasslike and brittle over time and as strong as epoxy - whereas TiteBond stays flexible (and creep).

The other part - making just one fine guitar with a choice of neck angle and (maybe) finish types would be a great idea... BUT that's basicly what they already do - but in a marketing controlled fashion. They make two guitars - a Nashville and a Memphis that basicly are quite like each other and that are basicly made the same way with the same tools. But from then on things change. Gibson convince you (or some of you) that the Nashville was build like in the old days and therefore have to cost double up. That's cleverly done because at that price level you/we are able to hear any sound improvements and differences clearly for psychologically reasons. Because of that they sell many Historics and most of us believe qua this marketing stimulations (words, pivtures of old tools on the workbench etc.) that they are just like in the old days and not made on the assembly line they really are - also in Nashville. Now - the same marketing trick is now repeated to transform the Memphis ES-335s to something special (namely a Custom Shop) simply by calling the guitars from there Custom Shops (which they per definition are because Gibson simply decided they are - exactly as they decided that a Historic is a historic even it lacks most historic classic features as mentioned in an earlier post...).

Please be aware - NOTHING of all this say anything about overall quality - just that the quality balance between Nashville and Memphis are maybe more equal than owners of socalled Historics fron the Nashville Custom Shop want to believe. The quality however is actually quite equal and indeed quite good both places and it is a fact that Gibson Custom Shop Memphis - as Gibson has named it (not me) - has lifted the low quality level from the beginning of the century (2000...) to a significantly higher level these days. You don't need to be a luthier to see that. You just need light and a mirror. So - nobody can really deny that - unless of course they own a Historic from Nashville that they madly want to be of much higher quality and for anything MUST be better. Ther word "production" ES-335 is therefore a much better word for them compared to "their own" vocabulatory including words like "hand build, Historic, and reissue etc. - it doesn't disturb their perception the same terrible way as words like "Memphis Custom Shop"...

But please don't forget that Nashville are under no circumstances more handbuild than Memphis or made of better materials or anything like that. And remember that calling a guitar Historic is as easy as calling it a Custom Shop.

sharq attaq · Jan 2, 2009

hipbluescat · Jan 2, 2009

Troels

What year did Gibson use Titebond glue on there guitars?

CocoTone · Jan 3, 2009

Troels said:
We often talk about particular years in the lifespan of the 335... personally I would never buy a 2001 (because I did once and it was terrible made - but sounded good). That said I'll agree that the finish on the Memphis guitars are more factory-like than the Nashville guitars. Unfortunately that doesn't make the Nashville finishing particularly "custom shop-like" either. But probably thinner and including more handwork. All in all my point is, that there is not a BIG difference between the way a Nashville ES-335 are made compared to a Memphis one.

Hipbluescat are right. Things change and some processes in building an ES-335 may even have improved over the years - and (maybe) most people don't even notice any type of changes at all.

Why don't they build them the way they used to??? Take the gluing for instance. It took a SKILLED craftsman/luthier to glue the top on the rims with hot hide glue. Compared to todays glue it was even a "science" itself just to mix the glue and to use it at the right temperature and viscosity. You had less than 30 sekunds to apply it, adjust the top and clamp it. I don't think Gibson have many employees left who master this old art. Using modern glue you can call any person in from the street - show him or her how to do it and then they are Gibson "luthiers"... in Nashville or Memphis makes no difference.

BUT - the glue itself DOES make a difference. Hot hide glue bonds to the surface in an a very complicated eletro-chemical way only including the very surface atoms whereas for instance TiteBonds cross linking glues and TiteBond Original (yellow carpenters glue that Gibson use) penetrates the wood surface and mute it in an for guitars unpleasent way (but good for furnitures...). When I knock at the body of my 1960 and compare it to when I knock my 2008 there is a HUGE difference in the sound response coming from the two guitars. Some of the difference in sound comes from the different glues used and of course from thicker finish. Hide glue becomes glasslike and brittle over time and as strong as epoxy - whereas TiteBond stays flexible (and creep).

The other part - making just one fine guitar with a choice of neck angle and (maybe) finish types would be a great idea... BUT that's basicly what they already do - but in a marketing controlled fashion. They make two guitars - a Nashville and a Memphis that basicly are quite like each other and that are basicly made the same way with the same tools. But from then on things change. Gibson convince you (or some of you) that the Nashville was build like in the old days and therefore have to cost double up. That's cleverly done because at that price level you/we are able to hear any sound improvements and differences clearly for psychologically reasons. Because of that they sell many Historics and most of us believe qua this marketing stimulations (words, pivtures of old tools on the workbench etc.) that they are just like in the old days and not made on the assembly line they really are - also in Nashville. Now - the same marketing trick is now repeated to transform the Memphis ES-335s to something special (namely a Custom Shop) simply by calling the guitars from there Custom Shops (which they per definition are because Gibson simply decided they are - exactly as they decided that a Historic is a historic even it lacks most historic classic features as mentioned in an earlier post...).

Please be aware - NOTHING of all this say anything about overall quality - just that the quality balance between Nashville and Memphis are maybe more equal than owners of socalled Historics fron the Nashville Custom Shop want to believe. The quality however is actually quite equal and indeed quite good both places and it is a fact that Gibson Custom Shop Memphis - as Gibson has named it (not me) - has lifted the low quality level from the beginning of the century (2000...) to a significantly higher level these days. You don't need to be a luthier to see that. You just need light and a mirror. So - nobody can really deny that - unless of course they own a Historic from Nashville that they madly want to be of much higher quality and for anything MUST be better. Ther word "production" ES-335 is therefore a much better word for them compared to "their own" vocabulatory including words like "hand build, Historic, and reissue etc. - it doesn't disturb their perception the same terrible way as words like "Memphis Custom Shop"...

But please don't forget that Nashville are under no circumstances more handbuild than Memphis or made of better materials or anything like that. And remember that calling a guitar Historic is as easy as calling it a Custom Shop.

I think your full of glue.:hmm

CT.

J.D. · Jan 3, 2009

Troels said:
We often talk about particular years in the lifespan of the 335... personally I would never buy a 2001 (because I did once and it was terrible made - but sounded good). That said I'll agree that the finish on the Memphis guitars are more factory-like than the Nashville guitars. Unfortunately that doesn't make the Nashville finishing particularly "custom shop-like" either. But probably thinner and including more handwork. All in all my point is, that there is not a BIG difference between the way a Nashville ES-335 are made compared to a Memphis one.

Hipbluescat are right. Things change and some processes in building an ES-335 may even have improved over the years - and (maybe) most people don't even notice any type of changes at all.

Why don't they build them the way they used to??? Take the gluing for instance. It took a SKILLED craftsman/luthier to glue the top on the rims with hot hide glue. Compared to todays glue it was even a "science" itself just to mix the glue and to use it at the right temperature and viscosity. You had less than 30 sekunds to apply it, adjust the top and clamp it. I don't think Gibson have many employees left who master this old art. Using modern glue you can call any person in from the street - show him or her how to do it and then they are Gibson "luthiers"... in Nashville or Memphis makes no difference.

BUT - the glue itself DOES make a difference. Hot hide glue bonds to the surface in an a very complicated eletro-chemical way only including the very surface atoms whereas for instance TiteBonds cross linking glues and TiteBond Original (yellow carpenters glue that Gibson use) penetrates the wood surface and mute it in an for guitars unpleasent way (but good for furnitures...). When I knock at the body of my 1960 and compare it to when I knock my 2008 there is a HUGE difference in the sound response coming from the two guitars. Some of the difference in sound comes from the different glues used and of course from thicker finish. Hide glue becomes glasslike and brittle over time and as strong as epoxy - whereas TiteBond stays flexible (and creep).

The other part - making just one fine guitar with a choice of neck angle and (maybe) finish types would be a great idea... BUT that's basicly what they already do - but in a marketing controlled fashion. They make two guitars - a Nashville and a Memphis that basicly are quite like each other and that are basicly made the same way with the same tools. But from then on things change. Gibson convince you (or some of you) that the Nashville was build like in the old days and therefore have to cost double up. That's cleverly done because at that price level you/we are able to hear any sound improvements and differences clearly for psychologically reasons. Because of that they sell many Historics and most of us believe qua this marketing stimulations (words, pivtures of old tools on the workbench etc.) that they are just like in the old days and not made on the assembly line they really are - also in Nashville. Now - the same marketing trick is now repeated to transform the Memphis ES-335s to something special (namely a Custom Shop) simply by calling the guitars from there Custom Shops (which they per definition are because Gibson simply decided they are - exactly as they decided that a Historic is a historic even it lacks most historic classic features as mentioned in an earlier post...).

Please be aware - NOTHING of all this say anything about overall quality - just that the quality balance between Nashville and Memphis are maybe more equal than owners of socalled Historics fron the Nashville Custom Shop want to believe. The quality however is actually quite equal and indeed quite good both places and it is a fact that Gibson Custom Shop Memphis - as Gibson has named it (not me) - has lifted the low quality level from the beginning of the century (2000...) to a significantly higher level these days. You don't need to be a luthier to see that. You just need light and a mirror. So - nobody can really deny that - unless of course they own a Historic from Nashville that they madly want to be of much higher quality and for anything MUST be better. Ther word "production" ES-335 is therefore a much better word for them compared to "their own" vocabulatory including words like "hand build, Historic, and reissue etc. - it doesn't disturb their perception the same terrible way as words like "Memphis Custom Shop"...

But please don't forget that Nashville are under no circumstances more handbuild than Memphis or made of better materials or anything like that. And remember that calling a guitar Historic is as easy as calling it a Custom Shop.

Yes, this sounds like the ramblings of someone who has neither seen a current Historic ES-335 nor knows a whole lot about how Gibson makes guitars. :wah

MK.II · Jan 3, 2009

Food for thought: from what I can see, when looking at pics of late 50's ES-335s, neither the Historic '59 335 or the Memphis 335s are all that accurate. One thing I've noticed is that the f holes look to be lower down on the body on the Historics and the Memphis reissues. On the 50's models the f holes start near the neck end of the bridge pickup while on the modern models it starts closer to the bridge end of the bridge pickup (or more near the middle of the bridge pickup on some). Also, the toggle switch is in line with the stop bar on the old ones and on the new ones it's lower than the stop bar. I think that's because of the lower f holes. Don't get me wrong, I think the modern built 335s (Historic and Memphis) are fine guitars, just not all that accurate to 50's models from what I've noticed. YMMV.

hipbluescat · Jan 3, 2009

Every few years Gibson made modifications to the specifications for no reason since the early 60's without any reason apart from simplifying the manufacturing process to make more dollars out the consumer at the expense of quality. Ironically they are just a bunch of cowboys in my opinion.

All these changes confuse and frustrate the consumer who is simply looking for a good guitar!!!

This also creates a lot of useless arguments in forums and people getting off side with one another.

Like I said before:-
I also just wish that Gibson would simply produce the best of instruments like they did in the 50's and 60's and offer a variety of neck shapes.

I really wonder why they have changed their processes from the 60's and kept getting it wrong!!!!

Jurius · Jan 3, 2009

J.D. said:
Yes, this sounds like the ramblings of someone who has neither seen a current Historic ES-335 nor knows a whole lot about how Gibson makes guitars. :wah

You may as well have said "You're wrong". There is no substance in this statement. At least Troels is stating what he believes to be the truth.

JD, I have a lot of respect for your opinion because of what I've read in other threads, but in this thread, Troels has held his own because the argument against him is not backed up with facts. Where do you take issue with his ramblings? Why does it sound like someone who doesn't own a current Historic? What do you know that Troels doesn't about how current Gibson guitars are made? Please educate those of us [me] that don't know any better and are trying to learn.

Sharq Attaq, it makes no sense to post in a thread when you find it to be worthless. :wah

Bhodie · Jan 3, 2009

Best picture I could find of an "unmolested" original 59/60 blond then a pic of a current 59 reissue..

I think the knobs and switches look pretty much the same.. but I agree the f holes look like they are moved slightly lower on the reissue, and the mounting piece for the pickguard is in a different location... If you look at the f holes.. they may have dropped them slightly to give a more uniform distance between the volume and tone knobs..

As for the conversation above, I did address it with some facts provided by Gibson.. that they use some of the original machinery from Kalamazoo in Nashville on the historics.. that there is a smaller, better trained custom shop crew that take longer to build the historics.. and there are also some material differences as well. While it is easy to say "unless of course they own a Historic from Nashville that they madly want to be of much higher quality and for anything MUST be better" (Troels), it could just as easily be said that is of course unless you own a Memphis production built 335 and are trying to convince yourself that it is as good as a Historic..

I have owned both, and sold my Memphis 335 to get the 59 because of the neck, quality, playability, sound, mojo, soul, whatever.. and that is all that matters to me.. as well as to the others here that have done the same. But to claim the only difference between the Memphis 335 and the Nashville historic 335 is the price is a ludicrous argument.

This will be my last post in this thread, I have enjoyed the discussion and will no doubt be put into the category outlined above since I bought the Historic.. but the only person I have to please here is me.. (well.. and my wife, kid, dogs.. nevermind, you get the idea!

)

Cheers all, hope you all have a great New Year and play whatever makes you happiest!

Troels · Jan 3, 2009

Bhodie said:
... 1) While it is easy to say "unless of course they own a Historic from Nashville that they madly want to be of much higher quality and for anything MUST be better" (Troels), it could just as easily be said that is of course unless you own a Memphis production built 335 and are trying to convince yourself that it is as good as a Historic..

2) I have owned both, and sold my Memphis 335 to get the 59 because of the neck, quality, playability, sound, mojo, soul, whatever.. and that is all that matters to me.. as well as to the others here that have done the same. But to claim the only difference between the Memphis 335 and the Nashville historic 335 is the price is a ludicrous argument....

1) That's right - it could easily be said about one who owns a Memphis - and that exactly what this is all about and why - I think anyway - Gibson changed Memphis to a Custom Shop - to stimulate that sort of believing. But they did too lift the general quality level a lot and plekted guitars and backed them up with the Custom Shop Warranty.

2) I did say there is not the huge difference in the way they are made that some owners of Historics want to believe. I know there are differences - but still they are build with the same tools and on an assembly line rather than on the work bench. The videos from Nashville Custom Shop simply show this clearly.

As I've mentioned before my ES-330 from 1960 is my main guitar. It's build in Kalamazoo and is simply a genuine Gibson build with premium materials (even they took the best pieces for 355, 345 and 335 first according to an old interview with Ted McCarthy). It sounds terrific and there's no discussions whatsoever about any details being genuine. It's simply all there as and even the F-holes are located where F-holes should be in 1960. Selling the bridge alone could almost pay hole new Gibson (presumeably a Gibson USA

) I'm fortunate enough to be able to buy as many Historic ES-335 I want - but don't because I use other guitars more. The 2008 ES-335 was given to me directly from Gibson Memphis i October 2008 because my 2001 ES-335 fell to pieces. When I bought that in 2002 I didn't even know that Gibson had a Custom Shop (I had probably bough a Nashville CS if I'd known - but I just went to the store and said "I'd like to buy a 335 - and the one they showed me was the one I bought... not untill a half year later I learned about the Custom Shop - a<nd it actually disappointed me that Gibson was on that trip too...). So nothing here is personal at all for me - and I don't need my 2008 ES-335 to be more than what it is - but it is a good one. And no matter what people here and elsewhere believe is the truth it came with papers that tells it IS a Custom Shop - and from Memphis... and even markguitar and J.D. don't like it.

I join Bhodie out this thread with these last words.

texas legs lee · Jan 4, 2009

gentlemen, gentlemen...
I have been glued to this discussion, as I am to most postings on this, and other gear sites. I admit, I am a gear-a-holic, and try to buy as many of the guitars that I love. I also gig fairly actively. If I may say, I find that the provenance of the guits are almost more important from an EMOTIONAL standpoint, than any other reason. I own some vintage pieces for no other reason than the fact that I'm middle aged and have been owning/playing them for a long while. I've also bought some recent models, and some offbeat 'el-cheapo' pieces as well. I buy what I like based on my own emotional stuff i.e. I LIKE THE WAY A PARTICULAR GUIT LOOKS, and luckilly for me, they've all turned out pretty well.. guess what?, I seem to suck on all of them!! [just kidding..]
seriously, I've seen great players pick up just about anything and make it sound good, and vice versa. To argue about all this stuff just seems so petty [although I too like to know about the gear]. Bottom line for me, is: do you dig the guitar, or don't you? or are you just looking at the 'future re-selling value'? Gibson, and other companies are laughing at us folks agonising over those smoke and mirror B.S. details that REALLY mean a whole lot of nothing, and making huge $$...
BTW, did anyone notice that HANNAH MONTANA'S guitarist was playing an ELLIOT EASTON SG in PELHAM BLUE??? the dude has taste! [so there...]

angus99 · Jan 4, 2009

Well, since this thread is showing signs of dying out, I thought I'd write Gibson and ask them to clarify the difference between current Memphis and Nashville ES 335s. Here's the reply I got this evening.

From: Customer.Relations@gibson.com
Subject: RE: ES 335 Production Facts
Date: January 1, 2009 8:58:23 PM EST
To:

The ES-335 Reissue made in Memphis is not historically accurate, it does have the current specs. They are meant to simply give the flavor of an ES-335 made in the late 50’s. The Memphis plant is a division of the Custom Shop but it is a separate plant.

The historic ES-335’s (i.e. 59 ES-335 and 63 ES-335) are made in the Custom Shop in Nashville. These two guitars are historically accurate to their designated years. These guitars come with a certificate of authenticity, custom care kit and custom shop case.

Regards,
Roger Ball
Gibson customer service

So there you have it. The differences between the two guitars are very clearly stated. On the marketing of 335s, however, it would seem Gibson wants to have its cake and eat it, too. Memphis is a "division of the Custom Shop," but Gibson considers it "a separate plant." This seems calculated to hit multiple niches in the marketplace with 335s that any owner can claim some link to the Custom Shop.

I have sent Mr. Ball a followup question about the certificates I understand are being shipped with Memphis guitars and will post whatever I hear back.

angus :nocd

current production es-335 versions

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