Who invented the Les Paul

Grog · Mar 18, 2017

Well put Al!! This is the most detailed version of the beginnings of the Les Paul guitar I have ever read & one I will take to my grave. The info I had read gave Ted McCarthy most of the credit. I hope Larry Allers gets his due.

buckaroo · Mar 18, 2017

Big Al said:
OK, just for you brother.

I have posted about this before and many times actually, about my trips to Kalamazoo and Gibson in the 1970's. While i was there along with Seymour Duncan and Jim Lombard, (the Santa Barbara tone mafia), for certification as a Gibson Repair Tech, I spent time with several long time Gibson employees, picking their brains. As I was extremely interested in any information I might glen about Les Pauls I met Marv lamb who was the shop foreman, and he took me to some old timers that were at Gibson in the late 40's and 50's. We had a pretty good hang, and I got the impression that nobody was asking the questions I did, or had even shown much interest.

We were down in the white wood area, where Marv started with the company, if I remember right, and I asked if they enjoyed working with Les and learning how to build a solid body from him.

This got quite a reaction, and I was given a mighty rebuttal and the straight facts from them that did it.

First they pointed out that Les Paul had nothing to do with the actual guitar as conceived by them. If anyone can be said to have pushed Gibson into making a solid body electric guitar it was Leo Fender. Ted McCarty was irked by the California company and as the Tele had created quite a buzz, and apparently Leo rubbed Ted the wrong way, Ted instructed the Kalamazoo boys to come up with a Gibson solid body electric guitar to crush Fender. Believing in the tradition and intricate musical instruments that Gibson crafted would prove more popular to the marketplace.

So? Who would design and build the thing? LARRY ALLERS!! I was told that Mr Allers was an extraordinary woodworker and guitar builder. These guys had the utmost respect ofr the dude and one proudly showed me the next day, the hand carved figured walnut gun stock Larry had made for his hunting rifle. It was indeed beautifully done.

There was some experimentation with wood but Mr Allers came up with the mahogany body/neck and carved figured maple top. Everything about that first Les paul is pure Gibson. Gibson mustache Headstock, ES150 crown inlays, bindings, the toggle switch and control layout the same as the upscale ES and L series arch tops as well as the arch top bridge and trapeze tailpiece. And let's not forget the first Les paul was SUNBURST like most Gibson guitars were.

There were some changes made to the way the neck tenon was employed and the sharp florentine cutaway was rounded. Les Paul when shown the prototype agreed to endorse it and the idea to make it a Les Paul Model was born with Les asking for the Goldtop finish and employing his bail bridge design.

Mr Larry Allers was the man who envisioned and crafted the guitar we all love so much and that few of us know who he is is so wrong. Like Seth Lover and Walter Fuller the full extent of their creations and contributions to the gear we all love so much, is often overlooked. Big names and big personalities are remembered. Corporate Officers and Bosses are exulted and often have been given or have assumed the title of creator or designer, because they were the top dog and head honcho or because their name was on the headstock.

That is often the way it was and still is. Still, I was lucky enough to meet some of these men and hear from their lips how it was and why it was done and I believe it to be true.

Thank you Big Al for sharing once again!

deytookerjaabs · Mar 18, 2017

Here is an image from the "Les Paul early years" book that is supposed to be a prototype that Aller's saved from the bandsaw:

clearmudd · Mar 18, 2017

Bloomfield,Clapton,Page,Beck and like minded players, otherwise who would care?

It failed, sent down the road. in the scrap bin for the SG.

It was brought back to life like Frankenstien, with all the wrong parts..........

So give credit to those who wanted it back:salude

Stevedenver · Mar 18, 2017

Respectfully, I have no issue with mr allers as the person who refined and executed Gibson's version, and, fwiw, that prototype has a cutaway very similar the the App, and the Bigsby too.

What I have read, was, that in the very late forties and early fifties, there were a handful at best, of electric guitar experimenter/ designers, if you will. Paul Bigsby, Appleton, and Leo among others, would sometimes exchange ideas, as part of a "fellowship" if you will of those in the business, and that included people from Gibson.

Now, right or wrong, personally, I find the App to be like no other early LP type I have ever seen, including the Bigsby. It is unique, in my eye, regarding its shape, proportions and carved top. Being that it was so much earlier than what Gibson finally produced, I am skeptical to say the least that Appletons guitar was not the design for the Gibson LP.

Let me be clear, I am not saying that the technical aspect of production, combination of woods, and other refinements are not Gibson or Allers, as I too have read McCartys accounts of the work done to find the right wood combinations, colors, etc.

I just find it a bit too coincidental in terms or proportion and overall visual impact.

So, while it might be that two almost identical designs emerged entirely independently and without any communication between Gibson and other designers at the time, I , am doubtful.

I have no doubt that those who worked at Gibson were under the impression that it was a Gibson design, but I think they would not likely have a perspective outside that of the shop realm, regarding where the shape and design might have originated.

buckaroo · Mar 18, 2017

deytookerjaabs said:
Here is an image from the "Les Paul early years" book that is supposed to be a prototype that Aller's saved from the bandsaw:

I remember the first time I saw that image in the book I thought "BIGSBY VIBE"!

Big Al · Mar 18, 2017

The Appleton guitar was an obscure one off and I find little influence on Gibson other the superficial ones to be expected. Bigsby was the first influential Solidbody builder, I have no doubt. How interesting is it that in the late 40's Leo and Les would gather together at Pauls home for brews, bbq and discuss solidbody electric guitar?

Still, when charged with creating a new solidbody guitar for Gibson I think the majority of the credit goes to Mr Allers. It was his design and none other. This is important to realise and I don't believe it should be obscured, minimized or marginalized.

Tom Wittrock · Mar 18, 2017

I think the image above is after it was restored.
I think these photos are early 1970s. Somebody else might remember them.

Big Al · Mar 19, 2017

Wasn't it originaly a dark brown sunburst?

Wilko · Mar 19, 2017

Stevedenver said:
... that prototype has a cutaway very similar the the App, and the Bigsby too.

Gibson had already been making that shape (as a hollow guitar) since 1947. The Les Paul prototype looks like one of these guitars. (hint-not the Appleton)

Zoomer · Mar 19, 2017

Tom Wittrock said:
Simple ... they were Les Paul's [Lester Polfus] parents. He was the first Les Paul. :salude

Ha! :hee

Snakum · Mar 23, 2017

When I was a kid I thought Ace Frehley invented the Les Paul. And for a long time I assumed they all were tobacco sunburst and didn't have pickguards. :dang

Big Al · Mar 24, 2017

The APP is cool in that home made way. It was NOT the first solid body. It was NOT used on any recordings or noteworthy gigs prior to the Bigsby, Tele or Les Paul. It was a cheap easy way to build an electric guitar with a Gibson neck, a pickup and other parts. It is the kind of guitar a non luthier guitar player with some woodworking skill would be expected to make back then.

Cool, interesting axe for sure but it is not Gibson shaped and that cutaway bears no resemblance to any Gibson and certainly nothing like a Les Paul.

The real pioneer was Slingerland 150[?], an electric solid body circa 1930's!!!!!!

Tom Wittrock · Mar 24, 2017

Big Al said:
The APP is cool in that home made way. It was NOT the first solid body. It was NOT used on any recordings or noteworthy gigs prior to the Bigsby, Tele or Les Paul. It was a cheap easy way to build an electric guitar with a Gibson neck, a pickup and other parts. It is the kind of guitar a non luthier guitar player with some woodworking skill would be expected to make back then.

Cool, interesting axe for sure but it is not Gibson shaped and that cutaway bears no resemblance to any Gibson and certainly nothing like a Les Paul.

The real pioneer was Slingerland 150[?], an electric solid body circa 1930's!!!!!!

Many years ago I saw a Lloyd Loar Vivi-Tone that was basically a solidbody.

Big Al · Mar 24, 2017

Tom Wittrock said:
Many years ago I saw a Lloyd Loar Vivi-Tone that was basically a solidbody.

Tom, the only one I have seen was a small hollowbody. Unfortunately it wasn't working and I'm unsure how they were amplified. Loar was ahead of his time for sure.

Have you seen the '30's Gibson electric banjo with the bursted flame top and CC pickup like the lap steels? I would love to see one.

jb_abides · Mar 24, 2017

deytookerjaabs said:
Here is an image from the "Les Paul early years" book that is supposed to be a prototype that Aller's saved from the bandsaw:

Read the book about what went down with 1951 prototype.
https://books.google.com/books?id=P...IKDAB#v=onepage&q=LARRY ALLERS gibson&f=false

Grog · Mar 24, 2017

Big Al said:
Have you seen the '30's Gibson electric banjo with the bursted flame top and CC pickup like the lap steels? I would love to see one.

Back when I use to frequent guitar shows more often, an Iowa vendor had one of these. It was a beautiful instrument. I think he had it for many years. I wish I had considered it a little more seriously, but I'm not a banjo player.

PS..... Thinking back, It may have been a solid body banjo-lin. I think I had a short neck. I remember the flamed maple top & 4 string Charlie Christian pickup.

Tom Wittrock · Mar 24, 2017

Big Al said:
Tom, the only one I have seen was a small hollowbody. Unfortunately it wasn't working and I'm unsure how they were amplified. Loar was ahead of his time for sure.

Have you seen the '30's Gibson electric banjo with the bursted flame top and CC pickup like the lap steels? I would love to see one.

This Vivi-Tone had a flat spruce top attached to a central board that started at the neck, but no sides and back. Hence, a solid body guitar.

I don't recall ever seeing one of those banjos except in the catalog and a photo or two.

GR88 · Mar 29, 2017

I call sticky :hank

Who invented the Les Paul

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