Zigzag Pole piece question

[ashbass]

If you are not logged into the site (member) then a number of forums (not just threads) are not available for viewing. To see what I'm describing, logoff and look at the forums listing - much fewer than if you are logged in.

Well, that's a good recipe for extinction.

Why should anyone join if they can't see what the forum is about? The information about Les Pauls was here for the world to appreciate and learn from. People joined to become a part of the community that they saw here. If people can't see the community anymore, why should they join.

10-12 years ago the buzz in other forums was about how snobby the LPF was and how if you went there you should be prepared to get flamed by the old guard. That attitude slowly changed over the next several years.

The locking of forums like the Tone Zone to the world is a return to the elitist past of the LPF. The "you can't share our knowledge unless you are one of us" attitude makes me sick inside. This is negative to everything I thought the LPF had evolved into and to which I wanted to contribute.

I remember years ago wondering why members who left the forum would delete all of their posts. I thought it was small minded to take whatever knowledge they had shared with the world away from the world. I am struck now with the urge to delete all of my posts; I can't stomach being part of a closed society when all the work I did and documented was intended for an open one.

These are sad days for the LPF.

Ashley Bass

 

[davebc]

I have the zig zag polepiece configuration on two of my R9's,the first one I did after reading in Dan's book.The second was actually done by Dan himself,as part of his routine set up.No one,and I mean no one is a through as Dan.

I have Dan's set up in front of me right now;here's the deal.
Looking down at the fretboard,with the high E being on the right of your diagram,my is set up is exact the opposite of yours,
ie my front pu is adjusted like your Treble pu.
That's straight from Dan's workbench.I'm sure it makes a subtle difference(a hair friendlier treble pu).

I don't have all of my Lesters set up that way,but it makes a huge difference in the ones where it is.

 

[ashbass]

Davebc,
What a great resource to have: a Dan-himself-setup!

So then if your guitar is on a stand and you're looking straight at it you have this?

/ \ / \ / \ Neck

\ / \ / \ / Bridge

Also, do your pickups have covers on the DHS guitar?

thanks

 

[Todd Louis]

Guy's do you have any Pic... ? And why would you want this?

 

[davebc]

Ashbass,all of my pu's have covers on.

 

[davebc]

Sorry,don't have a picture.It's in Dan's book,which is a must own.I also bought his second book "How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great."

That book includes a whole array of plastic punchout radius guides.

The idea is to have as much metal polepiece mass under the string as possible.
and to have polepieces also matched to follow neck radius

The net effect is not at all subtle,in fact,it's pretty dramatic,tough as these things are to put into words,definitely a punchier,fatter tone.It goes without saying that the pu's need to be adjusted for height first.

I think the book credits the Rev's guitar tech for passing on the innovation.

 

[ashbass]

Pics follow. The reason to do this is to have the pole pieces follow the arc of the strings over the pickup. That way the space between the top of the poles is roughly the same distance from the string for each pole piece. Viewed from the front head on, the pole tops would appear like so:

 

[davebc]

The axes I do have set up like this definitely sound different from the non zig zag,it's a nice change.I like to have differences from guitar to guitar.

 

[Gold Tone]

The pole pieces are set like that so that at no point will the string sit directly above and perpendicular to a screw slot............thus avoiding a point where the string is not being sensed as well as the others...........its always got a high part of the screw head under it. Having them horizontal to the strings or perpendicular......I think I read.........leaves the heights of neighbouring pole pieces at a more gross than fine adjustment relative to eachother.

As far as following the arc, there are 3 popular ways to adjust that:

1) arc following the string arc as above
2) setting the b pole low (below the pickup cover) and the d the highest..........like a Strat pickup.
3) no arc.....all flat.

Personal taste will guide you.

 

[Bluespower]

It seems that different pickups and guitars will need different pole set ups and pu heights. Some are more sensitive than others. ie. My Rolphs seem very sensitive to small adjustments. (Actually the guitar itself is very sensitive to small adjustments)

But, the the poles nearly always end up following the /\/\/\ thing and the pickups are nearly below the rings.

Goldtones "personal taste will guide you" is the best policy.

 

[Todd Louis]

:yay Thanks guys I will defonatly try this out and look for that book!

 

[davebc]

It seems that different pickups and guitars will need different pole set ups and pu heights. Some are more sensitive than others. ie. My Rolphs seem very sensitive to small adjustments. (Actually the guitar itself is very sensitive to small adjustments)

But, the the poles nearly always end up following the /\/\/\ thing and the pickups are nearly below the rings.

Goldtones "personal taste will guide you" is the best policy.

Hey Blues,I spoke with Jim about this very issue recently after buying another set of his 59 winds.He actually brought it up by asking me if I noticed the way he had adjusted the pole pieces.He basically told me they were preset by him and to leave them alone.Obviously though,every ax is different.

 

[ashbass]

Davebc,
So did Jim's pickups come preset with the zigzag or without? How did he set them up for you?

 

[Bluespower]

davebc,
I messed with pole heights, so I don't know exactly where he set them. He said the same thing, B should slightly below the cover, E should be about even and everything else follows the radius. It ends up / \ / \ / \ anyway.

I have these Rolphs just below the rings. I don't think I had others quite so low. He did say these were "different". (He said there are only three sets out there, he has one, I have one, and Richie Sambora has the other set) I still haven't been able to figure out that riddle. He never got specific. All I know is they sound great, better than my last set of Jim's. But the guitar is different too.

 

[davebc]

Hey guys,just checking in.
Jim is quite a character isn't he?
There's definitely a spiritual mysticism in Jims pu work;and he's a fierce picker to boot.
I can't think of anyone else who plays a LesPAUL like in a Tele style,through a fairly cranked BF Twin Reverb w/JBL's no less.

Anyway,I have the pu's in front of me.They are Jim's 59 wind,ie. ever so slightly hotter in the front than the rear.
In contrast to this thread his pole pieces are not zig zagged,but they are clearly and meticulously arced to follow the radius of a Gibson fretboard,and pattered like this:

Front pu, looking down,low to high 1= = = = = (the low E is verticle)
The rear pu looks to be exactly the same.
They clearly follow the fretboard radius.
Hope that helps.

 

[davebc]

Oh yea,before I forget,we all need professional help.

 

[mkg]

We do indeed need professional help!
I have a (probably dumb) question...can I take a flathead screwdriver and adjust the polepieces directly? I don't want to damage any part of the pup, especially the winding. The screws seem pretty resistant to turning, and I don't want to force anything. Mine have the covers on, so can I turn the screws without fear of damage?
Thanks for any and all help.

 

[Bluespower]

Turn them, and notice subtle differences at first. A wide blade screw driver that fits snug in the groove will lessen any damage.

Could it be that the Zig Zag thing is just coincidentally where they end up if you follow the radius of the board? (yes)

But some like the slot to be perpendicualr to the string. :hmm
could this really matter so much?

 

[papersoul]

I've tried many times but don't like the results with the pole pieces arced to the radius of the board....too bright and out of balance in my opinion. You can't adjust the slugs, so why the poles? I am just asking because I'd love to know why.
I find that in the bridge especially....if you arc the poles, you now have the coil closest to the bridge really dominating the tone and hence making things bright and in my experience thin. I definitely like them all flush with the pickup.

The other thing is the zig zag. How does that do anything? You still always have that slot under the string at some point. Plus, some of my strings on my Paul are not directly over the pickup pole pieces. :dead:

 

[ashbass]

Papersoul, the zigzag pattern is a coincidence the comes from arcing the polepieces to the radius of the fretboard/bridge when you start off with the outer E strings flush.

Why adujst the poles when the slugs can't be adjusted? Because you can adjust them, of course. If you weren't supposed to adjust them, they would be slugs as well. Same thing goes for pickup height.