weird,
watched the vid--fretboard is attached to neck before neck is attached to body,
yet it seems here as if the body either side of the mortice prevented the fretboard from being attached to the neck????
very strange, and I'm sure anybody building something like this by hand would have at least made sure there was a flat surface to bond to,-- the way the fretboard is attached before the neck is installed makes it difficult to see if anything fits well-(sides and bottom of tenon, they seem to rely on the fretboard to be sitting flat on the maple top, which hides a lot of details)
pretty shameful really on such an expensive instrument. A lot of work (and money) goes into getting it to look like its been played a lot, and yet the carcass isnt even glued solidly??
I'm not hating on Gibson, just kind of surprised that they'd let this happen on the flagship model.
the OP's fretboard cant have been attached to the neck in the same way the ones are done in the video--you see the part where the board is glued up and then clamped down in a press, yet on his there is a gap between the maple top and the tenon???????
strange days.
It looks to me that if the body joint pocket is ever so slightly too small front to back that when you slide the Neck/fretboard combo in there like the dude does just after he slathers the glue on the tenon, the pocket and the cap it will HAVE To pry the fretboard off the tenon for it to fit, and then you have only the edges of the fretboard contacting the cap but no longer does it contact the neck / tenon.
perhaps this is by design to always make sure the joint is tight?
Here´s a picture of the old fretboard.
As you can see there was almost no glue where the fretboard was loose. Florian told me the there was only some trapped Nashville air
We were both pretty baffled to see this on a Gibson flagship guitar.
c'mon.
I mean we go to ridiculous lengths to get these things hisorically accurate.
some of us go as far as buying a new instrument from Gibson,and then paying guys like Florian, and HM to make them even MORE accurate than the most recent offerings.
I love the Les Paul, and am kind of horrified that this situation has arisen.
How can it be by design-to make sure the joint is tight?? if it results in the fretboard being 'pried' off the neck???
I've gone down the replica route to get my own 'historically' correct Les Paul, and there is no way a loose glue joint would be acceptable.
The glue is meant to be a thin layer , the joint should be tight, and hot hide glue is meant to be the best glue for the job.
This makeover has opened a huge can of worms, and I hope Kevin from the custom shop will chime in here--cos theres some explaining needs to be done.
If i had recently bought a TRUE Historic, I would be seriously worried that this method of gluing in the neck could cause problems down the line, after any warantee period has expired--we all know about the neck rise problem dont we??
In fact, i'll have to get my copy of BOTB out and refresh my memory on it too, because if this is how they are being shipped out now--I dont think theres much hope for the future.
Its really sad that a guy has taken the bold step of having a makeover done , and on a TRUE historic, to have this come to light.
I hope some of the real experts will chime in on this, its not a problem that will go away.
cheers guys
andy k
I guess what I meant was in a mass production model like they have (as Shifter originally pointed out) where they have a bunch of necks and a bunch of bodies and you want the joint to be tight if you have to err on one side or the other you'd make a shade too tight rather than too loose. and too tight will mean that the thing to give a little would be the fretboard off the neck tenon.
what really doesn't make sense to me is why not just join the neck to the body without the fretboard on, get the surface between the cap and the tenon exactly perfectly smooth and level, and then glue the fingerboard on and it will be perfect every time.
Today Florian pulled the neck off the guitar!
Guess if Gibson had done a proper job glueing it in?
The answer will be revealed tomorrow
My guess is no based on taking past performance (comments in this thread) as a guide to the future.
Subscribed!
Fascinating thread indeed. I guess this makeover thing is similar to some folks as is aging process. I own a '63 Landau relic Strat and love it, but do my best not to get my Ruokangas Unicorn dinged - OTOH if I was to buy another Ruokangas it'd definitely receive aging treatment. If this makeover gets Orreman to pick up this very guitar more or just pleases his eye, then in my book it's a success. His money, his choice etc.
Thinking about what we have so far,
bodies and necks are cut on CNC machine, with a small tolerance, which one would hope would allow for a small amount of fine tuning.
The wood is kiln dried to a certain amount of acceptable moisture content--there should be no real shrinkage in the time it would take Gibson to 'mate' neck and body---the neck and body should be a tight fit.
The photo above, showed maybe a millimetre gap between the maple cap and the tenon, and therefore the fretboard, a millimetre of glue seems too much.
I know its hot hide glue, but still, thats not good.
The way they are fixing neck to body--with fretboard attached, how can they know its not a loose fit, with a lot of glue.
I certainly expected better attention to 'detail' than this from the top of the range model.
I dread to think what we will find tomorrow.
sorry
andy k
Can you imagine what those horrid hand built things from back in 1959 would look like if you took them apart?:spabout
Thanks for posting Charley,
I'm glad someone respected is watching this.
I guess the guitars built in the 50's were built to last-60 odd years.
and i'm not suggesting that these new ones aren't.
I'm just calling it how i see it--
we are expected to believe that the new ones are built to an acceptable level of stability--, and we are TOLD that they are the most historically accurate re-issues to date.
The video, and this makeover proves that is BULL.
and it takes a brave man to go as far as to lose all warrantee, to get that step further in his quest for accuracy, to expose that there are flaws.
So there we go, its now just a name, and another brand.
The ageing thing, is another thread--and the work Murphy began, and perfected deserves all the credit --works of art.
but I personally think its gone too far, now we have proof that there are shortcuts being taken.
A can of worms has been opened, and I think the silence is deafening from the people who could offer ANY explanation.
This guitar, may be a one off--it should have a piece of paper with it, showing who did every step of the work on it, even my sub £400 imported 2015 CM came with a polaroid showing it being set up.
Another little touch that gave me hope there was some care being taken.
The OP, and Florian are going where few people would tread,
somethings gone wrong--