To Grover or not to Grover

[shakti]

Just a thought;

if changing the tailpiec studs to good quality steel ones makes a tonal improvement, wouldn't the design/mass/material of the tuners also possibly make a significant difference? At least on open strings?

 

[MRTONEMAN]

In the early days, people put Grovers in because the stock tuners were really bad in how they 'worked'. The new ones that come on Historics are very high quality, so this need is gone.

Sure, there are minor tone differeneces, but back in the day, IF the Vintage tuners worked as good as today's, most would of never changed them on LP-Standards, and there would be no need to copy their trend.

 

[Humbuck]

Don't bother IMO. Just darken your tips.

 

[Manolian]

In the early days, people put Grovers in because the stock tuners were really bad in how they 'worked'. The new ones that come on Historics are very high quality, so this need is gone.

Sure, there are minor tone differeneces, but back in the day, IF the Vintage tuners worked as good as today's, most would of never changed them on LP-Standards, and there would be no need to copy their trend.

This is true , that is why I put on Grovers , the klusons on my '00 classic were crap .
BTW, the difference in tone is nil,but the tuning accuracy is 10 fold.

 

[wooderson]

In the early days, people put Grovers in because the stock tuners were really bad in how they 'worked'. The new ones that come on Historics are very high quality, so this need is gone.

Sure, there are minor tone differeneces, but back in the day, IF the Vintage tuners worked as good as today's, most would of never changed them on LP-Standards, and there would be no need to copy their trend.

I recall that PAFs "worked" but a lot of people in the 1970s swapped them out for DiMarzios anyway.

Then again, maybe the PAFs "worked" but didn't get the sound that guitarists wanted back then.

n.b. I have a thing for vintage modifications, although I am somewhat agnostic on DiMarzio SDs.

 

[MRTONEMAN]

I recall that PAFs "worked" but a lot of people in the 1970s swapped them out for DiMarzios anyway.

Then again, maybe the PAFs "worked" but didn't get the sound that guitarists wanted back then.

n.b. I have a thing for vintage modifications, although I am somewhat agnostic on DiMarzio SDs.

True, non-potted PAF types work best into NonMaster tube amps, as opposed to M.V.-gain and pedals. Tuners are of course much more subtle in their tone differences. I think to an extent tuners and pickups were changed in the old days, for different reasons. If I had to replace poor working tuners, I'd just get the ones found in the Historics, for a cleaner install.

 

[55Custom]

Has anyone had a historic with factory Grovers, and then removed them and installed kluson style tuners? If so,was there an improvement or not, and in what way?

 

[pist0lpete]

In the early days, people put Grovers in because the stock tuners were really bad in how they 'worked'. The new ones that come on Historics are very high quality, so this need is gone.

Sure, there are minor tone differeneces, but back in the day, IF the Vintage tuners worked as good as today's, most would of never changed them on LP-Standards, and there would be no need to copy their trend.

this is a very sound point. and I wont argue with it, but I'd like to bring up a point that at least for me, I picked up on Les Pauls because of the artisits i liked, i copied their trend so to speak. Either way though, grover or modern Kluson they work well. I haven't changed out the tuners on my R9 (its just to damn pretty as is)

 

[oasis02]

I'm in a similar position as you jalevinemd, but with a guitar of half the value of yours (Traditional) and I can't bring myself to do the mod. I had a 2001 Standard that had them, and I loved them. I think they really "complete" the look of a Les Paul I would personally design. Odd that six little knobs could have that effect, but they do!

If I could find a set like trapland's keystones (no drilling required) I would do it in a second, otherwise I personally would never do a mod with such obvious evidence (a visible hole) to a guitar of any significant value...

Unless I were in a position where the consequence did not matter!

 

[jalevinemd]

I'm gonna put the Grovers on hold for now, only because I'm too nervous to make such a permanent change to the pegs on my R9. I just can't imagine not being happy with the result, though. Seems like any guitarist I grew up listening to who played/plays a Les Paul did it - regardless of the reasons. If different tuners actually can have such an impact on tone, it didn't seem to hurt the sounds that Dickey Betts, Gary Rossington, Tom Scholz, Jimmy Page, Pete Townshend, etc...etc...were able to to create. I may wind up doing it eventually. I think, though, that I'll try them on my GO first.

 

[zombiwoof]

I'm in a similar position as you jalevinemd, but with a guitar of half the value of yours (Traditional) and I can't bring myself to do the mod. I had a 2001 Standard that had them, and I loved them. I think they really "complete" the look of a Les Paul I would personally design. Odd that six little knobs could have that effect, but they do!

If I could find a set like trapland's keystones (no drilling required) I would do it in a second, otherwise I personally would never do a mod with such obvious evidence (a visible hole) to a guitar of any significant value...

Unless I were in a position where the consequence did not matter!

Grover makes keystones now, the vintage 135 series, is that what you're talking about?:

http://www.grotro.com/Mainvintage.html

Al

 

[trapland]

If I could find a set like trapland's keystones (no drilling required) I would do it in a second, otherwise I personally would never do a mod with such obvious evidence (a visible hole) to a guitar of any significant value...

Unless I were in a position where the consequence did not matter!

I should elaborate on my set. They are all nickel, look just like traditional grovers, except have nickel keystone buttons. They also have SCREW IN bushings. I've never had to ream a guitar to install them, but I've never tried to install them on a guitar that came with PUSH IN bushings. I'm pretty sure they would be too big. Ok for a traditional, maybe not so for a reissue...

 

[jalevinemd]

Yeah...my '61 SG (USA, not Historic) took the Grovers without any modifications.

 

[les strat]

It would be interesting to hear what Page's guitar would have sounded like if he hadn't had Grovers on it.

Check out the Tous en Scene concert footage:
http://www.narodtv.su/?vid=71513

 

[Browneyes]

Has anyone had a historic with factory Grovers, and then removed them and installed kluson style tuners? If so,was there an improvement or not, and in what way?

I did with my ross. I wouldn't say an improvement. just different. I prefer them with klusons.

 

[Browneyes]

Page's guitar would sound like Page's guitar with or without grovers.

 

[Todd Louis]

true

 

[csteward]

What's the difference between the Vintage USA Grovers and the modern USA Grovers?

 

[pist0lpete]

What's the difference between the Vintage USA Grovers and the modern USA Grovers?

the cost, but from what I understand current grovers are made over seas.

 

[csteward]

There are certain ones that are made overseas, but I also believe there are ones that are definitely made in the USA, which are the ones I purchase, and they aren't vintage. I wish I could come across some old grovers, I would definitely put them on my R7.