Those 1960 Les Paul/SGs where can they be?

[Melodyman]

Mine is a 4 digit 61, but it has a stepped neck joint and the original brown alligator case with yellow trim inside..Came with the maestro side to side trem but also with the stop bar tailpiece inserts already drilled and came with the studs and stop bar as well..A few years ago it was valued at around $30k. I know they have dropped alot since then, but any idea what the going rate for one is now? Gonna have to sell off some of my axes as I am retiring from the music scene and moving away soon. Thanx!

 

[blueline]

Here is the control cavity, looks like one ceramic cap, possibly original and one later period poly type cap which may have been replaced when the pickups were swapped. IIRC the pickups are early 70's vintage, I will check later to verify this. I'm unfamiliar with "wireless bridge" but if someone explains it, I can check on that as well. Neck is rather thin and fast, plays great. I used to gig with I a lot in the 90's, but have since semi-retired it out of caution...

By wireless I mean a bridge that does not have the little retaining wire that holds the saddles onto the bridge. Sometimes the wire gets lost but the holes for the wire remain. Your guitar should have no wire and no holes. If you flip it over it says abr-1. You can submit a close pic of the bridge if you like. It is easy to see if it is there. So the pickups tuning pegs and this bridge are favourites to plunder on these early Les Paul/SGs.

I see that round brownish poly cap but I have not seen anything like that before in a LP. Others more knowledgeable may help with that. The pickup wires look modern but we already knew that the pickups were changed.

If you can, can you submit another shot of the heel to get a better sense of the repair.

 

[blueline]

Mine is a 4 digit 61, but it has a stepped neck joint and the original brown alligator case with yellow trim inside..Came with the maestro side to side trem but also with the stop bar tailpiece inserts already drilled and came with the studs and stop bar as well..A few years ago it was valued at around $30k. I know they have dropped alot since then, but any idea what the going rate for one is now? Gonna have to sell off some of my axes as I am retiring from the music scene and moving away soon. Thanx!

Hi Melodyman can you post some pictures? My first thought is that the stop tail holes are not likely original to the guitar but a picture would help. Secondly, the case typically would be a brown hard shell with pink lining. Or possibly a later case, black with yellow lining. So send a pic of that to check out. So value would depend on the parts being original especially those PAFS pickups. Prices are around half of that 30K figure for a all original 61 with no cracks or repairs. But that was a 3 years ago and I see trend for these guitars going up recently.

 

[Dr. Jimmy]

By wireless I mean a bridge that does not have the little retaining wire that holds the saddles onto the bridge. Sometimes the wire gets lost but the holes for the wire remain. Your guitar should have no wire and no holes. If you flip it over it says abr-1. You can submit a close pic of the bridge if you like. It is easy to see if it is there. So the pickups tuning pegs and this bridge are favourites to plunder on these early Les Paul/SGs.

I see that round brownish poly cap but I have not seen anything like that before in a LP. Others more knowledgeable may help with that. The pickup wires look modern but we already knew that the pickups were changed.

If you can, can you submit another shot of the heel to get a better sense of the repair.

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense now that I think of it. I'll try to snap a few pics of the bridge in a day or so.

Here's a closer view of the neck repair:

 

[Melodyman]

Heres a few shots. The Stud tailpiece was originally custom ordered from the factory as were the posts for it. I am using the real one on another vintage les paul so the one pictured is not the one it came with.. I have the vibrola saved but as you can see by the darker red under where it was, it was on there for a long time.. No cracks or repairs and the finish is almost like new.. Smells like a photo booth! The case is the original case sold with the guitar. its black alligator with a yellow inside..

 

[blueline]

Thanks for posting your photos. Yes , that looks like the correct case. Although I love those sideways vibratos, I am not sure I would put it back on. I am pretty sure it left the factory with it installed but the stud holes are there so you might as well use them. From your pics it looks to be in good shape..has colour..very nice. I see the pick guard is the shorter rounded one that seems to appear in this serial number range. The brown cases also becomes less frequent from what I can tell, but that heel join did not change from the 1960 model. All looks good...are you keeping it?

 

[blueline]

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense now that I think of it. I'll try to snap a few pics of the bridge in a day or so.

Here's a closer view of the neck repair:

I can see what you mean now about the ridge being less pronounced. Was the strap button moved? I am just wondering about that round spot below the strap button. is it stable now?
Just gotta find some PAFS for that guitar.

 

[Dr. Jimmy]

I can see what you mean now about the ridge being less pronounced. Was the strap button moved? I am just wondering about that round spot below the strap button. is it stable now?
Just gotta find some PAFS for that guitar.

Since the work was done before I bought it, I assume the strap button was moved around the time of the repair. It's very stable, I did many, many gigs with it and never had any tuning issues or any other instability problems. It's very light and resonant as hell, but yeah, some PAFs would be awfully nice in there!

 

[Dr. Jimmy]

Well this thread popped up in a random Google search about SG's. Crazy to know mine turns 65 this year, still plays and sounds incredible......

 

[Bruce R]

.... Gonna have to sell off some of my axes as I am retiring from the music scene and moving away soon....

Yup. Just sold my last Marshall ( which is emotional & symbolic to me) but have 4 nice Fender combos left.

 

[Joe's Vintage Guitars]

Being new to the SG model it was time to do a little do a little research. My first stop was to consult the printed texts. Bacon’s recent book on SGS was very disappointing. Bacon provides little information on vintage LP/SGs and no photo of a 1960 model.
Fortunately the information is out there on this and other forums and is not new but I decided to bring it together here to argue for a consistent set of specs for the 1960 New LP, to stimulate discussion and to get this pub to start at 1960 not 1961.

Searching the internet search and consulting 4 published books netted photo references to 11 1960 LP/SGs. One was eliminated because it appeared to have been re-necked and re-stamped, one had an unknown serial number, and one had a serial number (#011186) but no photo of the body. That left a sample size of 8 with 5 showing a clear picture of the heel join. Unfortunately this forum like most is not an archive and many pictures have long ago lost their links. Nevertheless information on four LPs was retrieved from this forum that included serial numbers 0-8875, 0-8877, 0-8878, & 011190.
Having a serial number was crucial to avoid duplication. The remaining four LPs were 0-8765, 0-8776, 0-8779 , & 011189.

Based on an examination of these 8 LPs, the resulting 1960 specs were:
1. Ink stamped serial number
2. A heel characterised by a prominent heel with a ledge around it. (contrary to the published texts)
3. Plain no script truss rod cover.
4. Long tailed pointy pickguard that often touched the top of the toggle switch ring.
5. Brown lifton style case with pink lining (No. 535 case faultless, plush lined).
6. PAFS
7. Sideways vibrola
8. Wireless bridge.

These specs carried on into early 61 and at some point, and I am guessing somewhere into the 5 digit numbers, the smooth heel that is more often associated with the early new LPs, began to be produced.

The 1961 specs were the same as the 1960 model with the following changes:
1. Impressed serial numbers
2. Smooth style heel
3. Les Paul script on truss rod
4. Short tail pickguard with less pointed ends.
5. Black pebble case with gold lining (No 537 case, faultless gold plush-lined case.)

In Scott & Da Pra’s (1994) book,”Burst” , they noted that the earliest known LP/SG was 0-8888. However the earliest reference that I found was in the 0-8700s and some believe they started in the 0-7000s. It looks like as time passes more of these elusive Les Pauls will come to light. The authors provided this helpful information:
This interdigitation of serial numbers for sunbursts and SG Les Pauls is evidenced by the
following, very late-1960 production information:
#010001 SG Les Paul
#010180 sunburst
#010838 sunburst
#011169 SG Les Paul
#011189 SG Les Paul
#0111495 sunburst
#0111830 SG Les Paul (pg. 119)

Besides #011189, does anyone have photos of these SG Les Pauls?

Conclusion
The data indicate that these were production models and not prototypes. The proper range for the production of these new Les Pauls should be 1960 not 1961. The data suggest a distinct set of features for the 1960 that enhance their status as rare and desirable and not an instrument to be parted out as I have seen of late. These specs could also help identify early 61s, those with 60 features, from later 61s.
I invite those with a 1960 LP in the SG style to support refute or add on to this information. The sample size here is small so maybe I have overgeneralized so bring it on. I am pretty convinced that a lot more than these few exist, so let us see them.

The 1960 Les Paul SG is a fascinating chapter in Gibson’s history. The specs you’ve mentioned like ink-stamped serial number, prominent heel, and brown Lifton case make it a key transitional piece between late '50s Les Pauls and early '60s SGs. This period not only marked the shift to the SG body style but also blended classic craftsmanship with innovations that defined Gibson in the '60s. The absence of the Les Paul script on the truss cover reflects the company’s move toward a more modern aesthetic. Owning a 1960 Les Paul SG means holding a historically significant piece of guitar history.

 

[jb_abides]

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