The holy grail Burst + Marshall tone: Kossoff isolated track

[Guitar Magic]

This is the tone I have in my mind when I think of the ultimate Les Paul & Marshall tone. It's incredible to me how different it sounds to anything today or when you watch someone on YT trying to sound old-school with a cranked Plexi and a Les Paul. The tone of Kossoff has some voodoo I can't figure out (the insane vibrato technique is a big part for sure). His tone has a musical ring, a rich harmonic content that I'm unable to reproduce. The chords have a powerful attack, they come in kicking like a jackhammer. The guitar track has an organic, metallic quality, it almost sounds like his tone is coming from a big box made out of metal. The sustained notes in the solo sound like a violin (starts from 2:10)

How is this tone possible? I've been trying to capture this tone and I'm unable to do it. I crank my '69 JMP 50 with my '74 cab, plug my R9 straight into it and I get a generic tone like this. It's a typical cranked plexi tone that I hear on great YT channels but it's nothing like the original recording. Does anyone have an idea why the original track, which is "just" a cranked Marshall and a Les Paul sound so different? The missing element of course is the original Burst and the original PAFs. What if Kossoff would have recorded the original track with an R9? Would the iconic song sound totally different? Or is there a trick in that recording that makes it so hard to reproduce? I really want to solve this mystery.

https://soundcloud.com/guitarmagic-72043024%2Fkossoff-tone-veg

 

[janalex]

Do you have a super bass circuit? Pulsonic cones? How did you mic it? His amp is fat but not as distorted. There is that one pic of a double mic setup u67 and a d12

 

[DutchRay]

Well, first of all, Paul's rhythm part is doubled and left and right have slight variations and are much cleaner than yours maybe try your guitar volume at 8 or 9 or turn down the amp to 7 or 8.
Your lead part comes pretty close, a little too much gain but the compression level sounds about right.
Also don't forget the studio mics and all the outboard gear we're hearing on the original recording.

 

[Guitar Magic]

Do you have a super bass circuit? Pulsonic cones? How did you mic it? His amp is fat but not as distorted. There is that one pic of a double mic setup u67 and a d12

My JMP 50 is originally a bass model but got converted to lead. The speakers are rare 6402 cone Greenbacks from the early 90s (many call them the closest to the old Pulsonics). I just used a Shure dynamic mic close-up off center on the main riff and I mixed in 50/50 a room mic for the solo part.

I realized that I was too distorted. I also hear on the original track that his volume knob on the guitar is backed off slightly.

I'm not sure though that if I'd convert the amp back to bass circuit it would get me much closer.

 

[Guitar Magic]

Well, first of all, Paul's rhythm part is doubled and left and right have slight variations and are much cleaner than yours maybe try your guitar volume at 8 or 9 or turn down the amp to 7 or 8.
Your lead part comes pretty close, a little too much gain but the compression level sounds about right.
Also don't forget the studio mics and all the outboard gear we're hearing on the original recording.

The doubled rhythm track sure has much to do with the difference, but I hear a much richer tone nonetheless. Also more organic with that unique metallic quality like if his tone is coming out of a metal chamber. I can't figure out how that kind of tone is achieved. It's the best guitar tone I've ever heard.

Yeah, I cranked the amp too much I think. This '69 has serious distortion. After listening to the original Free track closely, I'm 100% sure that his guitar's vol knob is lowered on some parts of the song. Agree, my lead seems closer in tone, I mixed in the camera's room mic for that part with the close-up dynamic mic.

 

[Tim]

A long time ago I read he used a Fender amp in the studio. Maybe a twin, his tone does have that clean-ish sound.

 

[Tim]

Found the old thread - https://www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/kossoff-all-right-now-tone.171804/

 

[Wilko]

Not as cranked as most think. That isn't all that cranked to my ears, and the added thickness comes from the obviously doubled track. One side has more finger and pick noises.

I don't hear fender at all. That is all marshall.

 

[janalex]

A black flag circuit is a super bass with low filtering and it will have a fenderish Marshall growl. It is a different amp than a high filtered superlead circuit. Secondly maybe the second amp is a different amp altogether provided us with an altogether unique sound.

 

[TM1]

You need string like they use to make in 1969/70. Not the crap "nickel plated" shit most string maker use now. He most likely used "Essex"(like Clapton used) or early Rotosounds. Either one will be pure nickel wrapped with a round core on the wound strings. Even early Ernie Ball's were pure nickel. Get yourself a coily cords that knocks off some of the highs and I'm pretty sure he used Coil cords. The other thing I would do is get a "Brown Box" voltage adjuster. Wall voltage in this country is all over the place. That Marshall of yours really doesn't want to see anything over 115v AC. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...wnbox-tube-amplifier-input-voltage-attenuator

 

[TM1]

British 240v/50Hz sounds much different(better I think) that American 120v/ 60Hz. My voltage at home is anywhere from 114v to 130v. Everytime I've played in the U.K or on the Continent, my amp sounds much better running on 240v.
I knew Andy Fraser for the last 5 years of his live. We became great mates! I miss him! He was a really special human! He told me alot of great stories! Another friend of mine was Paul K's bass player right after Free broke up. He was on the plane when Paul passed,
A funny story with Andy.. We were meeting for dinner once and I decided to bring my 1963 Gibson EB-3 bass. As soon as he saw it he said, "Oh I see you found my bass". Apparently he had one at one time, but it had been knicked (stolen), ao when he saw mine he decided to have one over on me.

 

[Emiel]

Hate to say, but I'd never try to copy a studio tone. You'll never know how they recorded it, what guitar, strings, amplifier, speakers, cabinet, microphone, desk, etc. There are simply too many variables.

I'd listen to several live takes and go from there. You're definitely not far off. I'd assume he backed off the guitar volume to say 8 and kept whatever amp he used pretty clean. As mentioned in the other topic, there is a possibility that he even didn't use a Marshall in the studio.

 

[Emiel]

British 240v/50Hz sounds much different(better I think) that American 120v/ 60Hz. My voltage at home is anywhere from 114v to 130v. Everytime I've played in the U.K or on the Continent, my amp sounds much better running on 240v.
I knew Andy Fraser for the last 5 years of his live. We became great mates! I miss him! He was a really special human! He told me alot of great stories! Another friend of mine was Paul K's bass player right after Free broke up. He was on the plane when Paul passed,
A funny story with Andy.. We were meeting for dinner once and I decided to bring my 1963 Gibson EB-3 bass. As soon as he saw it he said, "Oh I see you found my bass". Apparently he had one at one time, but it had been knicked (stolen), ao when he saw mine he decided to have one over on me.

Great story, many thanks for sharing! Andy sounds like a great dude, a miss surely!

 

[Guitar Magic]

You need string like they use to make in 1969/70. Not the crap "nickel plated" shit most string maker use now. He most likely used "Essex"(like Clapton used) or early Rotosounds. Either one will be pure nickel wrapped with a round core on the wound strings. Even early Ernie Ball's were pure nickel. Get yourself a coily cords that knocks off some of the highs and I'm pretty sure he used Coil cords. The other thing I would do is get a "Brown Box" voltage adjuster. Wall voltage in this country is all over the place. That Marshall of yours really doesn't want to see anything over 115v AC. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...wnbox-tube-amplifier-input-voltage-attenuator

I'm located in the EU where wall voltage is 230V and it is really consistent in the places where I use my amp. My Marshall's plate voltage is 410 VDC.

 

[Guitar Magic]

Not as cranked as most think. That isn't all that cranked to my ears, and the added thickness comes from the obviously doubled track. One side has more finger and pick noises.

I don't hear fender at all. That is all marshall.

Yes, that's what I figured. It's definitely high volume but doesn't seem fully cranked, not at all. The double track sure plays a role but nonetheless I can hear an extra ring / much richer harmonics in the chords. I don't hear that in my Marshalls. I can't even find a YT example of a cranked old Plexi that would have this rich quality.

But the studio track certainly sounds like a Marshall.

 

[Wilko]

Oh there's definitely some magic happening. I can surely hear that top end sparkle and chime. There are some who think maybe a Selmer amp was used. Those are known for being a really chimey cross between a Marshall and a Vox.
Could be something like a top boost (I'm forgetting the name of the popular one.. rangemaster?), or even the mic pre and/or compression at the desk.

one old interview has this: "My memory says the man used a Selmer T&B 50 [amp] on that record. I can’t prove it because I don’t remember who told me. But I do have a Selmer T&B 50 and it sounds “right on” with an appropriate guitar. I can get that tone easily with the Selmer and a [Gibson] L5S. I still have a Les Paul Special, which comes close through a Marshall, but the Selmer is the key element. Like I said…a strange choice, but [Koss] worked in the Selmer store. If he got a good one, would he let go?"

Paul Rogers says "...Guitar-wise, Paul Kossoff was playing one of his several Les Paul sunbursts on All Right Now, plugged into a Marshall stack."

 

[DutchRay]

Oh there's definitely some magic happening. I can surely hear that top end sparkle and chime. There are some who think maybe a Selmer amp was used. Those are known for being a really chimey cross between a Marshall and a Vox.
Could be something like a top boost (I'm forgetting the name of the popular one.. rangemaster?), or even the mic pre and/or compression at the desk.

one old interview has this: "My memory says the man used a Selmer T&B 50 [amp] on that record. I can’t prove it because I don’t remember who told me. But I do have a Selmer T&B 50 and it sounds “right on” with an appropriate guitar. I can get that tone easily with the Selmer and a [Gibson] L5S. I still have a Les Paul Special, which comes close through a Marshall, but the Selmer is the key element. Like I said…a strange choice, but [Koss] worked in the Selmer store. If he got a good one, would he let go?"

Paul Rogers says "...Guitar-wise, Paul Kossoff was playing one of his several Les Paul sunbursts on All Right Now, plugged into a Marshall stack."

Anyone who's ever played a halfstack that close can tell you it certainly was not at full volume. At that distance to the amp you get all sorts of harmonics otherwise impossible, maybe that's what we're hearing.
Also, Paul was a pretty bad ass player and we all know tone is in the fingers!

 

[Any Name You Wish]

Guitar Magic - Maybe there is something wrong with me, but it seems simply you have too much bass and too much compression. Might be the amp doing it. Crank the mids, add a some reverb.

But then I am listening through a laptop and my hearing has 300,000 miles on it.

 

[DutchRay]

Oh there's definitely some magic happening. I can surely hear that top end sparkle and chime. There are some who think maybe a Selmer amp was used. Those are known for being a really chimey cross between a Marshall and a Vox.
Could be something like a top boost (I'm forgetting the name of the popular one.. rangemaster?), or even the mic pre and/or compression at the desk.

one old interview has this: "My memory says the man used a Selmer T&B 50 [amp] on that record. I can’t prove it because I don’t remember who told me. But I do have a Selmer T&B 50 and it sounds “right on” with an appropriate guitar. I can get that tone easily with the Selmer and a [Gibson] L5S. I still have a Les Paul Special, which comes close through a Marshall, but the Selmer is the key element. Like I said…a strange choice, but [Koss] worked in the Selmer store. If he got a good one, would he let go?"

Paul Rogers says "...Guitar-wise, Paul Kossoff was playing one of his several Les Paul sunbursts on All Right Now, plugged into a Marshall stack."

Double post.

 

[Red Barchetta 91]

The sound is very Marshall-y or Marshall-esque. Reminds of some of Alex Lifeson's tones on Fly By Night. I don't think it's cranked but claiming that the guitar volume is turned down sounds counterintuitive to me. It'd get bassier. Probably the bass on the amp is turned down. And the "magic" is some kinda freq cancellation due to the double tracking. It sounds out of phase-ish. Perhaps a ranger master somewhere in there? Idk. Anyways, back down on the gain on your amp and that will get you closer than before.