Sitar’ing issue

[xxedgexx]

I have two brand new Les Pauls. A R9 and a R8. They both showed up with buzz/sitaring issues on the high strings. Seems to happen whether it’s open or fretted.

The bridge saddles seem to be cut very deep from the factory and on the R9, I can actually feel like a ledge inside of the groove the string get hung up on…. Just seems a bit shitty from Gibson to let it go out like this.

My question. Does anyone have any tips on how best to troubleshoot this? How do you test definitively whether it’s the nut or the saddle? I saw someone suggest putting “nail polish hardener” at the saddle and if the sitar’ing goes away, that proves it’s the saddle.

I have a different guitar, an LP Custom, and the nut slights on the factory nut were cut super deep on the high strings.

Relief is around 8000th of an inch on both guitars.

If it’s the saddle, then I’d like to know the properway to notch a new saddle.

Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Vics53]

Don't know about the saddles, but I had a bad "sitar" issue on the G string on my LP. Took it to a tech and watched as he took the nut file and cut in an arch like fashion on the head stock side of the nut. He wasn't cutting the depth of the nut slot, but giving it more of an down angle towards the headstock side of the nut if this makes sense. He did this three times and the sitar issue was almost gone. He had me leave the guitar with him so he could finish it up and a few days later it was finished. Problem solved.

I got to give this guy a call because my SG Special does the same thing on the G string.

 

[RandK]

Sitar is a dampening of the fundamental vibration of the string by something that shouldn't be in the way. Nail polish is not the answer. Fretted says it's not the nut.

At the bridge make sure the string is not contacting the head of the screw. Use a strip of paper as a gauge to slip in between if you can't see clearance. If the slots are truly cut too deep this may be the issue. Also push down on the screw heads to make sure they are seated in the bridge body. They are soft brass and will bend so don't force them. If they seem raised up this can be a saddle seating problem. Check for even small gaps between the bottom of the ears of the saddles and the top of the bridge where they sit. Saddles with air underneath can buzz. A bent screw can raise up a saddle as well.

Take a string out of the saddle slot using a finger from both hands, set it on top of the saddle beside the slot. Pluck the string. This will likely make the sitar go away if the problem is with the quality of the saddle string slot. If the slot is too narrow or does not follow the natural flow (angle) of the strings to the nut there can be a small kink where the direction of the saddle slot meets the direction of the string causing the sitar. Dress the slot with the appropriate size nut file. Too wide a slot is better than too tight for the sitar effect.

If the action is just too low, or there is a small rise of the frets over the body the strings may be contacting the high frets. Raise the action to check if needed.

Dealers make a nice commission on the sale of a R8/9, which is supposed to help pay them for taking care of their customer. Why aren't they taking care of your issues ?

 

[xxedgexx]

Sitar is a dampening of the fundamental vibration of the string by something that shouldn't be in the way. Nail polish is not the answer. Fretted says it's not the nut.

At the bridge make sure the string is not contacting the head of the screw. Use a strip of paper as a gauge to slip in between if you can't see clearance. If the slots are truly cut too deep this may be the issue. Also push down on the screw heads to make sure they are seated in the bridge body. They are soft brass and will bend so don't force them. If they seem raised up this can be a saddle seating problem. Check for even small gaps between the bottom of the ears of the saddles and the top of the bridge where they sit. Saddles with air underneath can buzz. A bent screw can raise up a saddle as well.

Take a string out of the saddle slot using a finger from both hands, set it on top of the saddle beside the slot. Pluck the string. This will likely make the sitar go away if the problem is with the quality of the saddle string slot. If the slot is too narrow or does not follow the natural flow (angle) of the strings to the nut there can be a small kink where the direction of the saddle slot meets the direction of the string causing the sitar. Dress the slot with the appropriate size nut file. Too wide a slot is better than too tight for the sitar effect.

If the action is just too low, or there is a small rise of the frets over the body the strings may be contacting the high frets. Raise the action to check if needed.

Dealers make a nice commission on the sale of a R8/9, which is supposed to help pay them for taking care of their customer. Why aren't they taking care of your issues ?

Thanks. It happens when fretted so I still think it’s a saddle issue. The R8, it’s the B string that seems the worst and the screw does look a bit elevated compared to the others. I’ve tried to reseat it but it doesn’t seem to go down any further. Perhaps the screw is bent. I’ll look again.

I ordered some abrasive cord to try to smooth out the notch after watching some stew mac videos.

The dealer is on the other side of the country and I really don’t want to go through the hassle of shipping the guitar. Purchased from Dtown Guitars in Doylestown Pennsylvania.

I just sent an email to Gibson service, so at the very least, I hope they’ll cover a local authorized service guy.

I tried the nail polish thing and that didn’t seem to make a difference. Did I just get unlucky and get a wonky bridge….

 

[xxedgexx]

Thanks. It happens when fretted so I still think it’s a saddle issue. The R8, it’s the B string that seems the worst and the screw does look a bit elevated compared to the others. I’ve tried to reseat it but it doesn’t seem to go down any further. Perhaps the screw is bent. I’ll look again.

I ordered some abrasive cord to try to smooth out the notch after watching some stew mac videos.

The dealer is on the other side of the country and I really don’t want to go through the hassle of shipping the guitar. Purchased from Dtown Guitars in Doylestown Pennsylvania.

I just sent an email to Gibson service, so at the very least, I hope they’ll cover a local authorized service guy.

I tried the nail polish thing and that didn’t seem to make a difference. Did I just get unlucky and get a wonky bridge….

Examined the saddle and screw a bit closer. With the saddle off, it feels like the screw sits better in its slot. When I put the saddle back in, the screw looks as if it sits a little higher than it should.

This first pic is with the saddle in place


Pic1 - With Saddle

Pic2 - Without Saddle

Top view without saddle

Top view with saddle

Bridge slot

 

[RandK]

Can't tell from the photos but check to make sure the strings are not touching the screw heads, there should be at least a piece of paper (.003") clearance. You are top wrapping and that changes the geometry of things like instead of pointing down to the tailpiece they are now coming down from the top of the tailpiece. Did you have this problem before top wrapping ? Think about going back to get the guitar dialed in.

Does the sitar go away when you pull the string out of the slot and put it to the side ?



I do not like the cord, people manage to be a menace with that scratching their pickup covers and pointing the takeoff point downward etc. It is not for cutting and shaping just final polish which isn't necessary.

 

[Dave P]

I had one that the ABR1 wasn't machined correctly, and the saddle kind of floated over the bridge casting creating a sitar/buzzy sound. Drove me nuts trying to figure that one out.

 

[xxedgexx]

I had one that the ABR1 wasn't machined correctly, and the saddle kind of floated over the bridge casting creating a sitar/buzzy sound. Drove me nuts trying to figure that one out.

It’s feels like something like this. Are the Gibson historic abr-1 you can buy at GC the same thing that’s on this R8? I feel like just picking one up…

 

[charliechitlins]

Are ABR1s even machined, or are they just cast?
All that cobby stuff and a big old seam from the mold on the bottom...
And they're pot metal...like a hood ornament.
They don't plate well, they sag, they rust, they pit...
I have cleaned up so many of these with files, sandpaper, Dremel...

 

[xxedgexx]

I contacted Gibson support and set up an appointment. Also picked up a new ABR-1 at GC. Is the PBBR-059 the same bridge that comes on custom shops?