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Questions about a “SG serial” website project

Sheyamax

New member
Joined
Apr 20, 2024
Messages
22
Hi everyone,

Matthias from France here. I’ll start with a quick introduction. Throughout my childhood I spent quite a lot of time at my dad's music shop just because I felt comfortable there. In my teens I started playing the guitar. The first electric I owned was a Storm SG, a cheap replica of the original model, followed a few years later by a second-hand 2000 Gibson SG Standard. Some 20 years later, the guitar is still with me. Over the years I have bought, sold and traded quite a few guitars. Through the last few years I have started a collection of vintage and custom shop SGs as they are still my favorite guitars. The 2000 Standard has been joined by a small number of friends from the 60s and the 70s – I believe some Norlin guitars are great and AC/DC is my favorite band. In this endeavor I have tried to educate myself and I have read as much as I could about the history of the guitar, Gibson, the SG, and so on.
Lately I have been particularly interested in the very first Les Pauls New Style produced from the end of 1960 until 1963 – the ones with the Sideways vibrola. As you know the guitar then became known as the SG with the Maestro vibrola. As some very knowledgeable people have noted, the information available in some specialized books such as Duchossoir (1983), Bulli (1989), Lawrence (2008) and Bacon (2015) is helpful but not always very accurate. As far as I know, today’s most valuable source of information on these guitars is a Les Paul Forum thread initiated by forum member’s blueline in 2017: https://www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/those-1960-les-paul-sgs-where-can-they-be.204103/
I have tried to further the research started on this thread and I do believe I have made a few discoveries that might be valuable to those interested in these guitars. For instance, I have identified an unknown late 1960 Les Paul New Model and I have also made a few hypotheses on the many unanswered questions about this guitars – i.e how many were made and where are they now ?
As many of you know, information on the 1958-1960 “burst” Les Pauls is now all over the place, with dozens of books dedicated to the model, the “burst serial” website and so on. However the same can’t be said of the first 1960 - 1961 Les Pauls New Style, with very scarce information available. For the last couple of months I have entertained the idea of building the equivalent of the “burst serial” website for the 1960 – 1961 Les Pauls New Style. A few things prevented me from actually starting it, hence a couple of questions:
1. Would some members of this forum be interested by such an endeavor?
2. For documentation purposes, such a website would require some pictures from individuals, guitar stores, etc. Do you think there would be a need to ask the agreement of every picture owner to repost it on the website? I have checked the “burst serial” website but I’m not sure of what conclusions we can draw from it as I am not very familiar with US copyright infringement legislation.

With many thanks,

Matthias
 

Bruce R

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
1,129
Hi everyone,

Matthias from France here. I’ll start with a quick introduction. Throughout my childhood I spent quite a lot of time at my dad's music shop just because I felt comfortable there. In my teens I started playing the guitar. The first electric I owned was a Storm SG, a cheap replica of the original model, followed a few years later by a second-hand 2000 Gibson SG Standard. Some 20 years later, the guitar is still with me. Over the years I have bought, sold and traded quite a few guitars. Through the last few years I have started a collection of vintage and custom shop SGs as they are still my favorite guitars. The 2000 Standard has been joined by a small number of friends from the 60s and the 70s – I believe some Norlin guitars are great and AC/DC is my favorite band. In this endeavor I have tried to educate myself and I have read as much as I could about the history of the guitar, Gibson, the SG, and so on.
Lately I have been particularly interested in the very first Les Pauls New Style produced from the end of 1960 until 1963 – the ones with the Sideways vibrola. As you know the guitar then became known as the SG with the Maestro vibrola. As some very knowledgeable people have noted, the information available in some specialized books such as Duchossoir (1983), Bulli (1989), Lawrence (2008) and Bacon (2015) is helpful but not always very accurate. As far as I know, today’s most valuable source of information on these guitars is a Les Paul Forum thread initiated by forum member’s blueline in 2017: https://www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/those-1960-les-paul-sgs-where-can-they-be.204103/
I have tried to further the research started on this thread and I do believe I have made a few discoveries that might be valuable to those interested in these guitars. For instance, I have identified an unknown late 1960 Les Paul New Model and I have also made a few hypotheses on the many unanswered questions about this guitars – i.e how many were made and where are they now ?
As many of you know, information on the 1958-1960 “burst” Les Pauls is now all over the place, with dozens of books dedicated to the model, the “burst serial” website and so on. However the same can’t be said of the first 1960 - 1961 Les Pauls New Style, with very scarce information available. For the last couple of months I have entertained the idea of building the equivalent of the “burst serial” website for the 1960 – 1961 Les Pauls New Style. A few things prevented me from actually starting it, hence a couple of questions:
1. Would some members of this forum be interested by such an endeavor?
2. For documentation purposes, such a website would require some pictures from individuals, guitar stores, etc. Do you think there would be a need to ask the agreement of every picture owner to repost it on the website? I have checked the “burst serial” website but I’m not sure of what conclusions we can draw from it as I am not very familiar with US copyright infringement legislation.

With many thanks,

Matthias
It's hard to believe the absolute lack of response to your post. Sounds like a good project to me.

I have owned a number of SGs over many years, four (at least), but have never been able to really bond with them. I am a Les Paul man at heart, so the SGs just feel and sound foreign to me. I moved all of them along after being attracted by their beautiful look and feel. I would gladly pass along any photos I have of each.

FYI. A few years ago I even started a small compilation of the varying SG headstock widths I noticed over the years, especially with the early 60s models.
 

Sheyamax

New member
Joined
Apr 20, 2024
Messages
22
Thanks for your reply! My post has had more success on the SG forum (https://everythingsg.com/threads/questions-about-a-“sg-serial”-website-project.40304/) With the help of a few other forum members we have managed to identify several late 1960/early 1961 (with late 1960 specs) Les Pauls/SGs. The owner of the SG Wiki has started to gather the information on this page: https://everythingsg.com/threads/questions-about-a-“sg-serial”-website-project.40304/page-3 For further research purposes I will try and summarize our main results so far.


Identified guitars (mainly Standards but there are a few Specials and Customs):

  • 0 8749
  • 0 8765 (there are some doubts about the authenticity of this guitar)
  • 0 8776
  • 0 8779
  • 0 8869
  • 0 8875
  • 0 8877
  • 0 8878
  • 0 8890
  • 0 9037
  • 0 9939
  • 0 9971
  • 010183
  • 011174
  • 011186
  • 011189
  • 011190
  • 011193 (there are some serious doubts about the authenticity of this guitar)
  • 011485
  • 012095
  • 012121
  • 131
  • 2104
  • 2122
  • 2180
  • 2224
  • 3729
  • 3749
  • 6676
  • 7692
  • 7716
  • 77xx
  • 8002


Known 3 or 4 digits serial numbers with no visual evidence of 1961 LPs/SGs Standards (with late 1960 specs):

  • 184 has been referenced by Walter Carter
  • 2098 has been mentioned by Blueline
  • 2105 has been mentioned by Blueline
  • 2106 has been mentioned by Blueline
  • 2225 has been mentioned by Blueline
  • 2238 has been mentioned by Blueline
  • 6162 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6163 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6164 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6165 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6166 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6167 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6168 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6744 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6745 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6746 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6747 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6748 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6749 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6750 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6751 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6752 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6753 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6754 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6755 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6756 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6757 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6758 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6759 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6760 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6761 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6762 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6763 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 6764 has been logged in the 1961 Gibson ledger
  • 8556 has been mentioned by Blueline


Other information:

  • 0 56xx has been mentioned by a Les Paul Forum member but it has 1961 specs so the serial number might be wrong
  • 010634 belonged to a Les Paul Forum member some years ago. It has been heavily modified and renumbered. There is not a lot of information available on this guitar.
  • 011185 has been mentioned by Blueline but there is not a lot of information available on this guitar.
  • 012104 has been mentioned by a Les Paul Forum member but there is not a lot of information available on this guitar.
  • 1 1054 has been mentioned by a My Les Paul Forum member as an early black 1961 Les Paul SG Standard.
  • 2 Standards (1 cherry and 1 white) were sold a few years ago by ATB guitars. According to the store they have a 4 digits serial numbers and are 13 serial number apart. As they have all of the late 1960 specs they are most likely in the 2000 or 6000 range.


Hope this help, please feel free to post anything that might further this ongoing research!

EDIT: Sorry for the multiple posts!
 
Last edited:

Subliminal lanimilbuS

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2023
Messages
529
I think putting documentation out there is great. If I come across any SG info in my uncles old docs I will send them to you.
 
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