Les paul jr. - what to look for

[AndreasG]

I'm on the hunt for a Les Paul jr. Saw lots of them around from 54 to 59, with extremely varying prices (from 4.000 to 20.000 +).
I'm looking for one I can play around in pubs and bars, so if it's a little rough I don't care. But how come those different prices? What are the good years for pickup, stabilty etc?

 

[LowE]

Welcome to the forum... oh wait, you've been here nearly 5 years! Price 3k-7k depending on condition.

 

[AndreasG]

been here long, but don't have vintage LP's t the time...what are the good years for the P90's? 54-55? or are they basically all the same?

 

[Electric Lloyd]

Here's a good breakdown, & others with tons of Jr. experience, like Mapleflame, might want to chime in. The early Jrs (1954 - '55) had short stud bushings that would sometimes twist & crack the wood between the stud hole & the pickup route. Make sure you inspect this area on early Jrs. Also, I read here that the early Jrs had P-90s with lower output than later ones. Not necessarily a bad thing at all, just a diffrent sound. Most would agree that 1957 to early '58 are the best years for a single cut jr. After that, they're all double cut, with some rare exceptions (I owned a 1959 single cut TV Model) so the differences come mostly to neck carve, weight & tone. Do you have a specific style Jr. in mind?

 

[AndreasG]

Here's a good breakdown, & others with tons of Jr. experience, like Mapleflame, might want to chime in. The early Jrs (1954 - '55) had short stud bushings that would sometimes twist & crack the wood between the stud hole & the pickup route. Make sure you inspect this area on early Jrs. Also, I read here that the early Jrs had P-90s with lower output than later ones. Not necessarily a bad thing at all, just a diffrent sound. Most would agree that 1957 to early '58 are the best years for a single cut jr. After that, they're all double cut, with some rare exceptions (I owned a 1959 single cut TV Model) so the differences come mostly to neck carve, weight & tone. Do you have a specific style Jr. in mind?

Sure enough....looking for a TV yellow (or sunburst), single cut
Is it a good idea to let my '76 Explorer Limited Edition go to finance it?

 

[Electric Lloyd]

That is a question only you can answer! How attatched to it are you? If it was me, I would do it, as I don't fancy Explorers, & I love Jrs.! I've owned 12 vintage Jrs thru the years & have a nice Historic '58 DC in cherry right now. What issues could you live with? The junior you're looking for can be pricy. One of our fellow Forum members just scored a very clean & all original '56 TV Model with the amp from Bernunzio's Uptown Music for $8,500.00 A great deal, if ya ask me...

 

[AndreasG]

Well, the Explorer hangs on my wall and gets very little action...."My" guitar is the Firebird.
I could live with refrets, replaced tuners, non-original case. There's not much at all on a jr . Looking for a "players grade", as I'm planning to play it around pubs and bars

 

[Electric Lloyd]

Cool! Well, they say a Grover-ed Jr. is worth approx. 10% less. So less than a Grand off the price. I've always been fond of well repaired headstock-ed vintage players. Never been much for refinished ones, though. A well repaired headstock Jr. could be had for thousands less...

 

[frazettafan]

That is a question only you can answer! How attatched to it are you? If it was me, I would do it, as I don't fancy Explorers, & I love Jrs.! I've owned 12 vintage Jrs thru the years & have a nice Historic '58 DC in cherry right now. What issues could you live with? The junior you're looking for can be pricy. One of our fellow Forum members just scored a very clean & all original '56 TV Model with the amp from Bernunzio's Uptown Music for $8,500.00 A great deal, if ya ask me...

Thats interesting EL. Having had a lot of vintage Jnr's how does the Historic stack up against them? My cherry finish '59 was definitely the best guitar I ever owned and I've missed it bad since I sold it. I've often wondered what a new one would be like but I've never played one? I was offered one a while back. I think someone said that the neck joint was smaller on the new ones?

Good luck with the search Andreas - you won't look back once you have one you like!

 

[Electric Lloyd]

Thats interesting EL. Having had a lot of vintage Jnr's how does the Historic stack up against them? My cherry finish '59 was definitely the best guitar I ever owned and I've missed it bad since I sold it. I've often wondered what a new one would be like but I've never played one? I was offered one a while back. I think someone said that the neck joint was smaller on the new ones?

Good luck with the search Andreas - you won't look back once you have one you like!

Well, I was able to try out five Historic Jrs. at The Great House of Guitars, here in Rochester, NY in 2006. I was actually looking for a single cut TV Model, but the cherry DC '58 was by far the best of the bunch. It's 7 1/2 lbs. & was by far the loudest acoustically. It reminded me very much of my favorite vintage DC Jr. that, by chance, was a 1958. (The vintage '58 I owned is the guitar I profiled the neck to reshape my avatar R-9s neck) I'm in the process of doing a "Project X" on the Jr. now. I have already reshaped the neck to more of a very soft "V" profile, & am in the process of refinishing it with a much better quality lacquer. I also have vintage electronics & plastic, including a pick guard for it. As far as comparing it to the ones I've owned, It's very close, & I'm changing the things about it I don't like as much. The wood is good on this one though.:salude
Oh yeah, the neck joint is narrower, & actually more complex than the originals. The tennon is as long as a vintage one, just narrower.

 

[retrobob]

I personally like the wider frets on the 59s and later.

Maybe an earlier Junior with a good re-fret could be another price break option. :hank

 

[Brown Recluse]

Andreas: Here are a couple of Junior related threads:

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156662&highlight=junior

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157296&highlight=junior

 

[renderit]

I have a 59 DC that was Grovered and beat. Got it for next to nothing (though many years ago - 90's and paid $450 with an amp and gig-bag). A well played faded (mines a cherry that is very brown) may hide an extra for you. If it was played a lot and beat it probably sounds fantastic. Though it looks like somebody used it for a paddle, the sound and action is unbelievable! Don't turn up your nose at the ugly ones, they may be the princesses...

 

[frazettafan]

A lot of good advice here. I prefer the later frets too. Good luck with your projectX, Lloyd - lets see some pics when it's done. Your avatar guitar is stunning btw! I've long admired that little image of it. Did you ever post pics of it?

Andreas - if you see an old (Pre circa '63 spade headstock type) Epiphone "Coronet" give it a try too - they are the Epi equivalent of the Junior and are fantastic guitars

 

[AndreasG]

thanks for the input guys. let's see how it works out, i'm in no hurry.

renderit - i just bought a well-beat '64 firebird that sounds great, so i WILL definitely look a beat-up-ones.

 

[JIMI55LP]

You will find the price is much higher for a TV model compared to a Junior, even though the guitars are virtually identical other than the finish.

 

[LowE]

I've always liked the double cuts more than the single cuts.

 

[cryptozoo]

I've got a '55 single cut, '61 double cut and a SG Jr. Each of them sounds and plays differently, and picking my favorite depends on the day -- all are great for different reasons.