- Apr 8, 2015
Looks like Sputnik and Mike got you squared away! Thanks for the question.I've got one for you Mat. I have a 2020 R8 VOS and a rep at Gibson sent be a spec sheet and the color is called "Believer Burst". I can't seem to find anything online about this color. Can you shed a little light on that for me?
It would have been a special order, either a Made 2 Measure order by a customer or a run of instruments spec'd by a dealer. service @ gibson.com should be able to point you to more info with the serial number.Makes sense, what I am hoping to find out from Mat is why is this color option impossible for me to find any info online. Was is a dealer specific or special order? Mine also has zebra custombuckers as you see in my picture. Any insight Mat?
Good one, thanks. Yeah I think they are both very simliar 18:1 tuner designs but being a vintage fan myself I understand the appeal of the Milk Bottles. However the majority of Gibson products that use Grovers are within the "Modern Collection" anyway, and if you want you can specify "Milk Bottle" Grovers for Custom Shop Made 2 Measure order. But point taken and I think there are areas where we could introduce the Milk Bottles instead of or in addition to the regular Rotomatics. I will say that even such a small tweak is quite the process at Gibson when you consider the longstanding orders, vendor ramp up, marketing asset edits, factory change notices, etc. So that's probably another reason they have not been more widely adopted. Hope that helps and thanks again for the feedback.One small item I’ve wondered about regarding tuner selection for models originally equipped with “milk-bottle” Grover Rotomatics….why is the modern-style Rotomatic still used over the milk-bottles now they’ve been reissued for quite some time? Retail prices at least are the same, both styles available in the same finishes, so just curious the reasoning.
I will absolutely do so...I think he very much does *not* want to have a website in retirement...haha. But you may see some of his creations for sale in the Gibson Garage in the years to come.I had heard Mike Voltz moved to Acoustic products, but not that he had retired... hope he enjoys it and finds fun stuff to do, also hope Gibson can still tap his talents. "Lloyd Loar of Memphis" what a great moniker. Please wish him well for me! (Does he have a website?)
Hey there! Thanks for the message. Yes all of these reasons and more are why we want to discontinue the range and start fresh. The current range is great, but as I said before the problem is they don't have a logical home in the current product architecture...they are neither Historic nor Modern...kind of an in between rooted in the 1970s techniques. So we will be taking the same approach with archtop reissues as the recent Korina reissues. Regarding top thickness, we are planning on getting CAT scans to study the graduation of the top and back carves underneath. What I've proposed is to start with a 1957 L-5CES Reissue...for that year a variety of pickups would be applicable to the platform.Hey Mat,
Regarding the arch tops, ever since 1970 the L5ces’ have had the wrong neck set (too high) compared to the earlier ones. This puts the bridge too high up and makes the whole thing play much stiffer. You can see this easily by looking at the side where the fingerboard meets the body, it is much higher than 60s and earlier. Also they changed in 1970 to have a weird slant toward the fretboard necessitating turning the neck pickup ring reverse to keep the pickup at the right angle. The earlier L5s with the right neck set are sooo much better feeling and sounding. I hope when these are overhauled that looooong standing change can be fixed. also pre-‘70 L5ces’ have much thinner tops than modern. Until these specs go back to the original I can only consider buying the pre-‘70 version and I know I’m definitely not alone. Sure loving my ‘64!
No one's asked about the neck joints yet?!
I'd love to know what the neck joint looks like on production Standard Les Paul and/or Traditional Standard Les Paul from, say, 2010 on?
Mat; I played one in Canada about 10 years ago. All original, impressed s/n# but with a #1 xxxx. It was a a black 2-pickup Custom. It was loaned to me by the producer of a festival we played in Belleville, Ont. He and I have been good friends for 20 years. But I've been around vintage Les Paul's for 50+ years so I knew what to look for..I would not doubt if a burst made it's way out in 1961...there are several "Les Paul Custom (Old Style)" entries in the ledger book from 1961 and a few that simply say "Les Paul (Old Style)", however my gut says those were still probably Les Paul Customs and the person entering them just wasn't consistent. No 1961-serialized Bursts have been discovered to my knowledge.
I also don't doubt that some 1959 or 1960 serial number bursts shipped or sold later on...employee sales...BGN/#2 sales...etc. However I have not seen ledger evidence of this.
As for custom-ordered bursts in the rest of the 1960s, I don't see this as a possibility. They would be in the Special Order logbook, for one, and for two I don't think Gibson created any sunburst single-cut Les Paul shapes until the 1970s (with the possible exception of a 1968-69 LP with P90s of some sort...again wouldn't doubt it). And speaking of, the rumor that the 1968 Les Pauls used leftover parts is completely bogus.
Now for the fun part -- Gibson DID take and make a couple of custom orders for single-cutaway Les Pauls in the 1960s but no sunburst ones and not the traditional single-cutaway Les Paul shape. I've seen two, one of which was featured in VG Magazine. They had the shape of what became the Les Paul Professional, with the chunky, slightly-rounded cutaway. Thanks for the question!!!
Thanks for the questions. As far as what we are doing currently at Gibson USA, I would highly recommend checking out the Gibson TV series "The Process". There is an episode here on the neck fitting which illustrates the current technique.To further embellish: FWIW I thought this was a good approach, of course it assumes you get the angles and bridge mounting correct!
Is this being used still, contemplated, any similar pattern, etc? What period were these used, and if stopped, why?
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Plus: another question to piggy-back: Anything different or remarkable about the Access-type joins (to include Moderns)? I noticed on the Epiphone Lifesons there seems to be more pieces on the neck-body joins as well as headstock reinforcement. Not saying Gibson should go there, but probably helps for the few models requiring stronger support for those Uber-whammies.
Yes, I seem to remember there are maybe two dozen Les Paul Custom (Old Style) models logged in the early 1961 ledger book. 2-pickup Customs from that era are rare as hell! The only ones I have ever seen were in a specific range from 1959. Very cool. Thanks for the note!Mat; I played one in Canada about 10 years ago. All original, impressed s/n# but with a #1 xxxx. It was a a black 2-pickup Custom. It was loaned to me by the producer of a festival we played in Belleville, Ont. He and I have been good friends for 20 years. But I've been around vintage Les Paul's for 50+ years so I knew what to look for..
Ren is a legend for sure. And if he wanted to come back I know we would look into how to make it possible. But I will say that I am beyond impressed with our current Gibson Acoustic factory team and my acoustic team within product development. We are in the process of adding on to the factory there which should open up a lot more capacity...right now the biggest problem is empty hooks on the walls of dealers! Anyway lots of cool stuff to come. Thanks for the message!If I was the powers that Be @ Gibson, I would Hire Back my friend Ren Ferguson. Ren esentially got the whole Montana Factory up and running 30 years ago, but he's told me that HJ basically tied his hands from going full steam on acoustic's with Hide Glue, etc. I went up there to visit him (my sister in-law lives in Big Timber, an hour east of Bozeman)) in 2006 and spent most of the day with him. I was really impressed with the factory but I could tell there was alot of things he wanted to do that he was held back on. I do have a 2005 Hummingbird that is one of 5(I believe, might be one of 25).
I hear you...the combination of the previous regime at Gibson requiring sweeping changes one year to the next and then adopting a new website format and infrastructure really made a mess of the legacy info. However, I urge you to contact the Customer Service team for info on specific guitars or products for which you have trouble locating info. They are extremely good at tracking down the obscure stuff and the stuff that disappeared from the web over the years. Separately, we do have more legacy sites that got garbled a bit in the transition which we intend on cleaning up and adding. But that is not really my arena, just what I have heard! Thank you for the question.Hey Mat! I really love the rich legacy content at Gibson.com (link below) and it’s possible I’ve spent a lot of time dreaming…I mean reading it. However it seems to me to be either incomplete for the years covered or the navigation is “off“ making some information challenging to find.
That said, I’d love to see information for years prior and easier to slice and dice.