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Gibson Custom Shop - Behind the Scenes Tour

jb_abides

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
5,210
My notes:
- "It is different wood." Light pieces, more single pieces i.e. "pick of the litter."
- Historic spec: flip-matched not book-matched.
- More Kalamazoo machines in use than USA. Lots of historic machinery. Spotlight on belt sander.
- CNC now has more scanned profiles available.
- Discussion of how short tenon came to be as a departure from long tenon.
- Unadvertised tidbit: still doing double carves. So did they never stop, as some believe? Either they resumed, or they just dropped the nomenclature...?
- Truss rod design over 100 years old. Passing reference to lack of condom ;)
- Acetate/Celluloid inlays made in house (with appropriate hazard protection measures).
- Carmalita slight-V is now the core spec'd neck profile.
- Arch tops being made... Historic Spec are inbound: promise kept. Can't wait!
- Master Luthier Doug Culverson workbench shown with custom inlays.
- Aniline dye loves to migrate through the ether to land on other finishes.
- The use of hide glue has expanded to fingerboard, top to back [from 2013 spec, for neck join only].
- Historic spec lacquer finishing is thinner; contemporary plasticizers help enable repairs.
- Murphy Lab lacquer formula has less plasticizer than Historic to accelerate 60 years of aging.
- Brief 'drive-by' of a mandolin rack; new models have been updated to historic specs.
- 1/3+ of total Custom Shop output is for Made-to-Measure i.e. custom-ordered guitars.
- Banana yellow... a brave choice!
- Soon to be launched Adam Jones Flying V Limited Edition shown in rack.
- Buffing apprentices expected to ruin guitars on their first go; sometime guitars fly skyward to ceiling.
- Note: spied a belly cut on Greenish Sparkle LP Custom bound for Japan, didn't appear to be an Axcess.
- LEFTY Brunswick Green Sparkle ES with diamond holes! Yay!
- Half a million different combinations are possible given all elements of a build: parts, finishes, etc.
- "The Parts Jail" for keeping track of supply. $1200 for an L5 tailpiece!
- Exciting things in the works: Futura, Moderne, etc.

Captain Lee still exhibits a touch of ADD... :cool:

Good job @matkoehler and thanks! New to me factoid: Mat was reared in the same stomping grounds as the Wizard of Waukesha. 🍑
 

jb_abides

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
5,210
"And Ghosted Pouts" section of "Take the Veil Cerpin Taxt" from Scabdates by The Mars Volta.

The Negotiation:
  • Pixies and Mars Volta Concert?
  • Or a hundred hours of Gossip Girl? And perhaps, sex.
- Him: [optimistic] We could go see The Pixies and The Mars Volta play a show.
- Her: [skeptical] I don't think I can do it tonight, I have to be back at the hospital at 6 am. Who's Mars Volta, again?
- Him: [Plays iPod, with an enthusiastic expression]
- Her: I don't think it's worth me being tired over... just stay and watch Gossip Girl with me.
- Him: OK, well then, if you fall asleep, I get to go to the concert?
- Her: If you stay, I will have sex with you.
- Him: I feel like you are blackmailing me with your genitals... that's not fair.
- Her: Well, then, do it to me.
- Him: Listen, if you don't go to that concert, you don't get any of my p*nis tonight!
- Her: [unfazed] I think I am going to stay home.
- Him: [resigned] ...doesn't work with the p*nis.
- Her: [triumphant] Nope, doesn't work.
And now back to our original programming about the Custom Shop tour...
 

Wizard1183

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
748
I don’t think it was any different than the first custom shop video done to be honest?
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,585
"And Ghosted Pouts" section of "Take the Veil Cerpin Taxt" from Scabdates by The Mars Volta.

The Negotiation:
  • Pixies and Mars Volta Concert?
  • Or a hundred hours of Gossip Girl? And perhaps, sex.
- Him: [optimistic] We could go see The Pixies and The Mars Volta play a show.
- Her: [skeptical] I don't think I can do it tonight, I have to be back at the hospital at 6 am. Who's Mars Volta, again?
- Him: [Plays iPod, with an enthusiastic expression]
- Her: I don't think it's worth me being tired over... just stay and watch Gossip Girl with me.
- Him: OK, well then, if you fall asleep, I get to go to the concert?
- Her: If you stay, I will have sex with you.
- Him: I feel like you are blackmailing me with your genitals... that's not fair.
- Her: Well, then, do it to me.
- Him: Listen, if you don't go to that concert, you don't get any of my p*nis tonight!
- Her: [unfazed] I think I am going to stay home.
- Him: [resigned] ...doesn't work with the p*nis.
- Her: [triumphant] Nope, doesn't work.
And now back to our original programming about the Custom Shop tour...



Brother is trifling, lost my best friends to such trifle, seriously.


I was at a few dates during early TMV tours. After a killer show one may or may not wake up at the corner of Roscoe/Central in some bi-lingual cuties studio all alone at 10am only to make the walk of triumph back to Ukrainian Village whilst the cell phone is blowing up with messages and you're putting the wonderful pieces of the evening prior back together.


Her loss.

Also, Mr. Omar is what musicians should be, versus what they're told to be by all the experts in the industry with lotsa youtube views.
 

zhivago

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
1,416
It was a great watch, I was surprised to see how much CNC is involved.

Looking forward to the Murphy Lab instalment. (y)
 

60thR0

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2021
Messages
61
- Murphy Lab lacquer formula has less plasticizer than Historic to accelerate 60 years of aging.
This is the first time I’ve actually heard this claim from Gibson so fair play. I will say he did follow this up with saying that the acoustical properties of the lacquer are similar but it’s the areas of exposed wood that are thought to provide any additional resonance or similar.

Something I found interesting was near the beginning there was a shot of a pile of Mahogany blanks and there was a huge color variation in them, some were quite reddish brown while others were very pale almost like maple. The reason I mention is is because a few people have said that the mahogony from Fiji is much lighter than the Honduran stuff used before, and yet some of those blanks had that same reddish look, while others don’t. So it’s not all of it. Just thought it was interesting. Mat also mentioned (as did Jim in the USA video) the weight apparently is the primarily factor they are sorting by.
 

Wizard1183

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
748
My notes:
- "It is different wood." Light pieces, more single pieces i.e. "pick of the litter."
- Historic spec: flip-matched not book-matched.
- More Kalamazoo machines in use than USA. Lots of historic machinery. Spotlight on belt sander.
- CNC now has more scanned profiles available.
- Discussion of how short tenon came to be as a departure from long tenon.
- Unadvertised tidbit: still doing double carves. So did they never stop, as some believe? Either they resumed, or they just dropped the nomenclature...?
- Truss rod design over 100 years old. Passing reference to lack of condom ;)
- Acetate/Celluloid inlays made in house (with appropriate hazard protection measures).
- Carmalita slight-V is now the core spec'd neck profile.
- Arch tops being made... Historic Spec are inbound: promise kept. Can't wait!
- Master Luthier Doug Culverson workbench shown with custom inlays.
- Aniline dye loves to migrate through the ether to land on other finishes.
- The use of hide glue has expanded to fingerboard, top to back [from 2013 spec, for neck join only].
- Historic spec lacquer finishing is thinner; contemporary plasticizers help enable repairs.
- Murphy Lab lacquer formula has less plasticizer than Historic to accelerate 60 years of aging.

- Brief 'drive-by' of a mandolin rack; new models have been updated to historic specs.
- 1/3+ of total Custom Shop output is for Made-to-Measure i.e. custom-ordered guitars.
- Banana yellow... a brave choice!
- Soon to be launched Adam Jones Flying V Limited Edition shown in rack.
- Buffing apprentices expected to ruin guitars on their first go; sometime guitars fly skyward to ceiling.
- Note: spied a belly cut on Greenish Sparkle LP Custom bound for Japan, didn't appear to be an Axcess.
- LEFTY Brunswick Green Sparkle ES with diamond holes! Yay!
- Half a million different combinations are possible given all elements of a build: parts, finishes, etc.
- "The Parts Jail" for keeping track of supply. $1200 for an L5 tailpiece!
- Exciting things in the works: Futura, Moderne, etc.

Captain Lee still exhibits a touch of ADD... :cool:

Good job @matkoehler and thanks! New to me factoid: Mat was reared in the same stomping grounds as the Wizard of Waukesha. 🍑
They all have plasticizers. That’s a crock of shit. You can’t make nitrocellulose lacquer without plasticizers. It’s a bullshit ploy ppl came up with. Throw it in the ditch for crying out loud. That’s not what distinguishes lacquer of today vs yesterday.
 

jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
5,210
They all have plasticizers. That’s a crock of shit. You can’t make nitrocellulose lacquer without plasticizers. It’s a bullshit ploy ppl came up with. Throw it in the ditch for crying out loud. That’s not what distinguishes lacquer of today vs yesterday.

Where are you seeing the need to make this comment? No one said there weren't any.

Mat essentially said the plasticizers in use today differ in formulation and as such have different end properties in the resulting finish, that's all.
 

Wizard1183

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Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
748
Where are you seeing the need to make this comment? No one said there weren't any.

Mat said plasticizers in use today differ in formulation, that's all.
Because far too many speak on it. Without it you wouldn’t have lacquer. It ain’t the plasticizers. It’s the entire ingredients that differ.
 

jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
5,210
Because far too many speak on it. Without it you wouldn’t have lacquer. It ain’t the plasticizers. It’s the entire ingredients that differ.

As stated the plasticizers have changed, so incorrect. They were silent on how other aspects of the formulation have changed.
 
Last edited:

Wizard1183

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Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
748
As stated the plasticizers have changed, so incorrect. They were silent on how other aspects of the formulation have changed.
But they weren’t silent on the plasticizers? So what did they use and how much back then compared to now?
 

jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
5,210
But they weren’t silent on the plasticizers? So what did they use and how much back then compared to now?

As Mat stated [also he's commented in his thread IIRC], the formulation of plasticizes has changed, vintage to now, and are also different Custom Shop versus Murphy Lab (as well as a thinner application of the overall lacquer formula). There are many types of plasticizer that can be used in nitro finishes. We aren't privy to the proprietary formulation, nor should we be. Mat is commenting on the formula's properties to offer information on the process employed and end result. He's not bound to disclose the recipe. It's not hard to fathom.
 

Wizard1183

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Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
748
As Mat stated [also he's commented in his thread IIRC], the formulation of plasticizes has changed, vintage to now, and are also different Custom Shop versus Murphy Lab (as well as a thinner application of the overall lacquer formula). There are many types of plasticizer that can be used in nitro finishes. We aren't privy to the proprietary formulation, nor should we be. Mat is commenting on the formula's properties to offer information on the process employed and end result. He's not bound to disclose the recipe. It's not hard to fathom.
Oh
 

E.M.

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Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
141
Good video - actually one of the better custom shop videos done recently. Matt’s knowledge and explanation of processes is super helpful. I found his comments on plasticizers super interesting. He essentially says that ML guitars are more resonant because of less nitro plasticizers and added weather checking, which allows the wood to breathe. Hmm, not to beat a dead horse, but this seems like more marketing hype coming from Gibson.
 
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jb_abides

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
5,210
Good video - actually one of the better custom shop videos done recently. Matt’s knowledge and explanation of processes is super helpful. I found his comments on plasticizers super interesting. He essentially says that ML guitars are more resonant because of less nitro plasticizers and added weather checking, which allows the wood to breathe. Hmm, not to beat a dead horse, but this seems like more marketing hype coming from Gibson.

I have to re-watch, but my recollection is he was rather... let's say open-ended... with room for interpretation... on the matter, something akin to [paraphrasing] "the thinking is" opening up and exposing more wood MAYBE enhances the acoustic properties.

It's going to be slight and nuanced, even the 'thinner' ML lacquer versus the Reissue doesn't make such a measured difference when combined with all varying aspects of an individual guitar's make-up: wood structure and weight, the guitar's wood matched with an individual set of pickups, how the set-neck wood resonates and transfers thru the join, the cast metal rings, the strings used... Everything imparts a slight impact. And of course, the pickups convey so much more that can override all those slight impacts from everything else.

So it's a bit of scientific reasoning sprinkled with a share of magical thinking. He's not engaged in total hype, neither is he out to dispel articles of faith.
 

E.M.

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Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
141
I have to re-watch, but my recollection is he was rather... let's say open-ended... with room for interpretation... on the matter, something akin to [paraphrasing] "the thinking is" opening up and exposing more wood MAYBE enhances the acoustic properties.

It's going to be slight and nuanced, even the 'thinner' ML lacquer versus the Reissue doesn't make such a measured difference when combined with all varying aspects of an individual guitar's make-up: wood structure and weight, the guitar's wood matched with an individual set of pickups, how the set-neck wood resonates and transfers thru the join, the cast metal rings, the strings used... Everything imparts a slight impact. And of course, the pickups convey so much more that can override all those slight impacts from everything else.

So it's a bit of scientific reasoning sprinkled with a share of magical thinking. He's not engaged in total hype, neither is he out to dispel articles of faith.
Good point. I’m so confused about the whole nitro thing at this point. It’s akin to the X Files: “The truth is out there”.
 

TommyVee

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Aug 31, 2002
Messages
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I ordered a M2M Faded Cherry Flying V Custom with a Floyd 14 months ago, saw what looked like could be my guitar over Matt's right shoulder on the rack behind the window in the paint / finishing room during the plasticizer discussion. Hopefully that's it!
 
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