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Current Historic Specs Getting Less Accurate?

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,594
Yes, are all 1700 bursts tail pieces in the exact same position? Same lean? Or are some straight? As I stated, (and I agree with you on Tolerances) ppl are just grasping at straws. At the end of the day? If that logo says Gibson? They hold value. Let’s look at the 2012 non accurate condom truss rod that everyone bitched about? On reverb most are asking between $5-8k for what was the step child to Historics. You think they’ll lower the price? Probably not. Because as long as Gibson keeps increasing pricing on new guitars? Used guitars increase in value…

Gibson could still sell these things with all sorts of details that might not line up to the originals. Good for them, that's the value in the brand.

But, over the few decades of this forum it's clear that they've been pushed in the right direction regarding the details so the materials have gotten more & more accurate. I think that's partly because of some who are/were members here that own the OG 'bursts who did those CC runs, part the enthusiast crowd, part the replica makers nailing the materials kinda nipping Gibson's butt, etc, all pushing folks on the inside who listened.

I think there's a lot of good in that, after all, it's a "Reissue."

And if there's a little tailpiece lean/placement that could be better? I say go for it. When the base price is 5K, enthusiasts have every right to fine comb the details and IMO many on this forum freely shared their impactful time/thoughts towards improving the reissues.
 

jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,078
My tailpiece analogy was an exaggeration. Top carves; some said TH models the carve wasn’t accurate. Yet they laser scanned originals. In the old days they used a machine correct. They held the guitar to the sanding machine. So a person can’t consistently have the exact same pressure on each one. Now a CNC is 100% consistent. So how can you say it’s not correct when there are bursts out there that match the carves of today? I think far too many are grasping straws…
The current carve does not have the recurve along the edge of the body. Otherwise it is in the ball park of the originals. The THs supposedly did have it (but I haven’t held one in person so I can’t swear to that) so would be more accurate. I can tell a current reissue at a glance by the wrong recurve at the edge, fretboard color, tailpiece positioning and sometimes the top and finish (although that continues to get better).
 
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jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,078
Here's a word for you, Tolerance: the degree of accuracy required in a measurement or the acceptable range of values in which the measurement will be acceptable.
Like the other users have stated repeatedly....there is some variation but it's a small amount due to the process, unlike, say, the variation in neck shape. The tops were cut from a machine (you could call it primitive CNC) and then the roughness was sanded down. It's not a huge variation, it's subtle. They didn't say the tops were wrong though, you kind of put that there by stating "some people said the tops were...".



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Is it the lean of the tailpiece you're referring to?
Yes. It is flatter than 50s. It used to be worse. Kim used to sell an offset anchor screw to correct for it
 

Wizard1183

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
787
Gibson could still sell these things with all sorts of details that might not line up to the originals. Good for them, that's the value in the brand.

But, over the few decades of this forum it's clear that they've been pushed in the right direction regarding the details so the materials have gotten more & more accurate. I think that's partly because of some who are/were members here that own the OG 'bursts who did those CC runs, part the enthusiast crowd, part the replica makers nailing the materials kinda nipping Gibson's butt, etc, all pushing folks on the inside who listened.

I think there's a lot of good in that, after all, it's a "Reissue."

And if there's a little tailpiece lean/placement that could be better? I say go for it. When the base price is 5K, enthusiasts have every right to fine comb the details and IMO many on this forum freely shared their impactful time/thoughts towards improving the reissues.
I don’t disagree with that. You’re right.
 

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,754
Yes, are all 1700 bursts tail pieces in the exact same position? Same lean? Or are some straight? As I stated, (and I agree with you on Tolerances) ppl are just grasping at straws. At the end of the day? If that logo says Gibson? They hold value. Let’s look at the 2012 non accurate condom truss rod that everyone bitched about? On reverb most are asking between $5-8k for what was the step child to Historics. You think they’ll lower the price? Probably not. Because as long as Gibson keeps increasing pricing on new guitars? Used guitars increase in value…

Gibson could reproduce a burst using as much accuracy as possible and you’d still have someone “observe” it’s not correct 🤣
Correction: According to Gibson shipping totals:

1958: 434 Goldtops / Bursts, approx. 200 were bursts giving they started the sunburst finish officially after july 1958, and giving one assume an even spread over the year.
1959: 643 Bursts (or 642, maybe they made 1 Goldtop.)
1960: 635 Bursts / SG Les Pauls, maybe 20 of them are the SGLP version?

That sums to a total of approx. 1,458 Bursts made. A few of them, alas, has been destroyed in fire, flooding, domestic disturbances, accidents, etc., leaving maybe roughly 1,400 Bursts left as of today.

[Of these only 3,000 has been accounted for yet as they say..]
 

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,754
Just imagining the row and subsequent smashing of guitar, makes my balls retract.. 😣

Bonjour.
Wonder if Pete Townshend ever treated a Burst like he treated his SG's and LP Deluxes..Heaven forbid!

1707761299495.jpeg
 

MarcB

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2023
Messages
948
Wonder if Pete Townshend ever treated a Burst like he treated his SG's and LP Deluxes..Heaven forbid!

View attachment 24814
Going on the history of guitars/guitarists/guitar shops in London.. I believe all the top players knew the value of bursts, as they were put on a pedestal by the very limited numbers coming into the UK at the time..(60s on..)
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,665
Absolutely. My inexpensive Les Paul copy with my 'favourite' pickups gets MY perfect sound...My Custom Shop guitars with Gibson Pickups most certainly don't.
May I humbly suggest to replace the pickups in your Gibson Custom instruments to get your desired tone .
 

Wizard1183

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
787
Correction: According to Gibson shipping totals:

1958: 434 Goldtops / Bursts, approx. 200 were bursts giving they started the sunburst finish officially after july 1958, and giving one assume an even spread over the year.
1959: 643 Bursts (or 642, maybe they made 1 Goldtop.)
1960: 635 Bursts / SG Les Pauls, maybe 20 of them are the SGLP version?

That sums to a total of approx. 1,458 Bursts made. A few of them, alas, has been destroyed in fire, flooding, domestic disturbances, accidents, etc., leaving maybe roughly 1,400 Bursts left as of today.

[Of these only 3,000 has been accounted for yet as they say..]
That’s right
 

Bryansamui

Active member
Joined
Jul 1, 2022
Messages
200
May I humbly suggest to replace the pickups in your Gibson Custom instruments to get your desired tone .
Yes, well you are right of course.That would sort out the guitars.I tend to gravitate to the 2021model Japanese Tokai.Its fantastic and I love the neck. Unplugged, it's neither better or worse than the Gibsons.
 

Flogger

Active member
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
555
Wonder if Pete Townshend ever treated a Burst like he treated his SG's and LP Deluxes..Heaven forbid!

View attachment 24814
There is a pic somewhere of The Who at the LA Forum during an encore. A roadie handed him a Burst, but Pete didn't know what it was. The picture is of Pete looking up at the Burst about 10 feet in the air with a horrified look on his face.
 
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