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CS0, CS9, CS8, CS7 at Wildwood

AustinR9Powers

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
146
Maybe if they can explain the benefits of a short wide neck tenon.
Could be more area of contact in the neck joint?
Till then, I will look for another 2013 or 2014 Untrue Historic. (false?)
 

Pickdropper

Active member
Joined
Jul 17, 2001
Messages
1,229
I have a feeling they will be difficult to sell to a lot of the more educated consumers who understand the differences in the neck tenons (like folks on this forum).

There will be some people that don't look as closely and will buy them. Hopefully, they are in low enough numbers that Gibson will revert to the long tenon for some Les Pauls at this price point.
 

Big Al

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Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,336
I have a feeling they will be difficult to sell to a lot of the more educated consumers who understand the differences in the neck tenons (like folks on this forum).

There will be some people that don't look as closely and will buy them. Hopefully, they are in low enough numbers that Gibson will revert to the long tenon for some Les Pauls at this price point.

Bullshit.
There is no structural or tonal advantage to the vintage tenon over the same kind of tenon that is a wee bit shorter. If anything the newer tenon has a wider shape that retains more of the necks wood and increases wood to wood contact for what may be better tone transfer.
If you have to have a vintage tenon pony up and buy one of the excellent new TH Replicas or any pre 2015 R series, if you want a top line Custom Shop Standard there are the CS series.
I don't think Gibson will have any trouble selling them.
 

Soulweb

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May 4, 2005
Messages
1,827
I have a feeling they will be difficult to sell to a lot of the more educated consumers who understand the differences in the neck tenons (like folks on this forum).

There will be some people that don't look as closely and will buy them. Hopefully, they are in low enough numbers that Gibson will revert to the long tenon for some Les Pauls at this price point.


Agreed to a point. For the buyer that freaks out about pickup rings and inlay points, they will likely turn their noses up at these. And that represents a lot of people who frequent this section of the forum.

But for people who MUST have a new guitar (there is a lot who don't want used) the benefit is a 4 figured difference in price. That will sell em. And as mentioned, the neck joint isn't really inferior, just incorrect relative to the originals. And again as mentioned, it could be argued that the short/wide tenon may actually be beneficial if not accurate.
 

Pickdropper

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Jul 17, 2001
Messages
1,229
Agreed to a point. For the buyer that freaks out about pickup rings and inlay points, they will likely turn their noses up at these. And that represents a lot of people who frequent this section of the forum.

But for people who MUST have a new guitar (there is a lot who don't want used) the benefit is a 4 figured difference in price. That will sell em. And as mentioned, the neck joint isn't really inferior, just incorrect relative to the originals. And again as mentioned, it could be argued that the short/wide tenon may actually be beneficial if not accurate.

Assuming that the necks joints function equivalently, I think the question is value for the money spent. I haven't seen a cross-section of the new CS series, but I was under the impression that it is a similar joint to a standard production Les Paul. If so, what is there that would make me spend more than a standard instrument? I understand that it doesn't have the brass nut and robotic tuners that a lot of folks don't seem to care for, but the used market is currently saturated with lower priced Les Pauls that don't have those features, some of which are great sounding, looking and playing instruments.

I agree that some will sell to folks that MUST have a new guitar.

Maybe these will sell really well. Who knows? I'm just not exactly sure who their target market is. It seems like they are there for folks that can't/won't spend the money on a True Historic. I think a lot of those buyers might look for a used pre-2015 Historic. Other buyers that care less about period correct accuracy may not care as much, but were they a Historic buyer in the first place?
 

Marcel M

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Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
555
Of course the people on this forum don't like them. But this is basically the only place where I regularly interact with people who even know what a long neck tenon is (minus my guitar repairman and one also LP obsessed friend). Of the people I meet who play in bands, they do not know about any of this stuff and couldn't care less. I think people will go into shops and compare LPS and some will prefer the CS ones and not care at all.
 

marshall1987

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Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,269
Bullshit.
There is no structural or tonal advantage to the vintage tenon over the same kind of tenon that is a wee bit shorter. If anything the newer tenon has a wider shape that retains more of the necks wood and increases wood to wood contact for what may be better tone transfer.
If you have to have a vintage tenon pony up and buy one of the excellent new TH Replicas or any pre 2015 R series, if you want a top line Custom Shop Standard there are the CS series.
I don't think Gibson will have any trouble selling them.

My sentiments exactly.
 

asapmaz

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
286
Bullshit.
There is no structural or tonal advantage to the vintage tenon over the same kind of tenon that is a wee bit shorter. If anything the newer tenon has a wider shape that retains more of the necks wood and increases wood to wood contact for what may be better tone transfer.
If you have to have a vintage tenon pony up and buy one of the excellent new TH Replicas or any pre 2015 R series, if you want a top line Custom Shop Standard there are the CS series.
I don't think Gibson will have any trouble selling them.

I could not disagree more. I think Gibson will have a hell of a time trying to sell these oddities. Enough so that they'll eventually revert back to the "historically correct" joint (as it happened with the bi-layered board in 2012). People are forgetting the fact that these are still $5.5-6k guitars. Who pays that amount of money and is yet completely uneducated or not ocd to a certain extent?
 

MS 57

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Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
643
I don't think Gibson will have any trouble selling them.

Well I do !
Even to the people who don´t care about neck tennons, the CS model is no longer top of the line,
so I think they are priced too optimistically as is also the case with the "true" Historics and the 2015 Standards.
But lets talk again in November.........
 

emg32

Member
Joined
May 27, 2003
Messages
463
I don't see them selling well as long as there are new 2014 Historics still on the market.
 

buckaroo

Formerly Tweedguy
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
938
I think 2015 CS models will sell. I do think it will take a little time for buyers to adjust to the new specs, but they will adjust. I also think that competition from (NOS and used) 2013 / 2014 will be a competing product. I was looking at MGL web site and it looks like some of his "recent" as new R9 models from 2014 are at $6000. IOW, seemingly (?) holding value from an asking price perspective. In contrast, some authorized Gibson dealers that have the new CS models in stock are selling the last of their 2014 for a bit less than 6 months ago.

So the market place is adjusting, as are the potential buyers. I would be surprised if the new CS models fail to sell.

What I really am anxious to see are the soon to emerge aged 2015 TH models and the 2015 CC models. Especially if they release a "Donna". The "Gabby" model at the end of 2014 was superb and has a finish that appears to be similar to the 2015 TH models: the hand wet sanded finish. The detail on the very few Gabbys that I have seen, and the one I own, is superb!
 
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badmisfortune

New member
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
276
I don't think there's any question that the TH models will sell out, and all likely at full MAP. There just aren't enough of them being made.

But I don't see the CS series selling out unless they are deeply discounted off MAP. I know we're a unique bunch here, but can you really see a forum member paying full MAP for one of these? The new tenon may sound just fine, and who knows, it may sound better than the Historic long tenon of days past. But I don't think it matters; just like the 2012 bi-layered boards, which forumites want to carry around that stigma unless they get a deep discount?

The only other market ( that I can see) for the CS series would be possibly people looking to move up from a Standard. But again, without a deep discount on the CS model the price jump is awfully steep for a non-junkie.

As someone pointed out, Gibson considers them sold when they leave the factory. But there is a limit to everything, and I think there could come a day when the discounts necessary to move some of these things make it unattractive to be an authorized Gibson dealer.

As in all things, time will tell if I'm close to the mark on any of this.
 

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,467
While I will not dispute what Big Al said about the tone etc. (and indeed tend towards agreement with) I will not buy a "50's Style Guitar". I will buy a 54 Reissue or a 58 reissue type but not short tenon. I find the generic "50's style" to be fine in hamburger joints, but not something I'm dropping 4-5K on. That's a little to "ish" for my taste.
 
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