Collings v Gibson enquiry, can you shed some light ?

[57gold]

No, believe they are an inch or so narrower at the bottom, but you could look that up for verification.

 

[renderit]

They have done a few runs in the past that were the lower bouts were larger.

I don't think they do that anymore.

 

[Sol]

By 'narrower' at the bottom bout do you mean that it is more shallow front to back ?
I only ask as the proportions of the Collings and Gibson appear identical when referring to the images you have both generously provided.. Certainly if the lower bout is indeed narrower, it surely cant be by much ?

Btw, Im still fascinated by Collings choice of Kluson over the list of highly regarded aftermarket abr-1 Tune o Matic bridges currently available.

I think those using the Kluson would be doing us a service by jumping in to share their testimonies regardless of the make or model of guitar using this particular abr-1 Tune o Matic.

Ive learned more useful and dependable information about hardware, components and pickups from this forum community of musicians than by any other source of information available to me.

 

[57gold]

Both companies (Collings and Gibson) list detailed dimensional specs on their models, use your search engine to find the facts.

The Collings I-35 series is about an inch or so less wide at the bottom bout than vintage ESs, from memory. I'm tall and big so it don't matter, both work for me.

Collings, which started as an acoustic guitar maker, tried out parts and pick ups when they got into electrics. Original bridge and tailpieces on CLs and I-35 series were TonePros and pick ups Lollars. Now they use other hardware and Throbaks as an option. Different strokes.

 

[marshall1987]

I have both makes....vintage Gibson..... and modern Collings.

1. Two Gibson vintage ES-335s (1965 TDC nickel-wide nut; & 1967 TDC narrow nut).

2. One 2017 Collings I-35 LC natural

Impressions: (1) I prefer the larger body (16") of the Gibson ES-335 over the Collings I-35-LC slightly smaller body (15"). (2) I prefer the 24.625" Gibson neck scale length over the slightly longer Collings 24 7/8" scale length. (3). I prefer the feel of Gibson necks w/ fingerboard binding nibs over fret ends. Conversely, Collings installs frets OVER the binding. (4) I prefer the Gibson 17-degree headstock angle over the Collings 15-degree headstock angle. (5) The build quality of my vintage Gibson ES-335s is excellent.... Collings' build quality is also excellent.

Conclusion: I think Collings misjudged the market somewhat by offering an alternative 335-style semi-hollow electric with (1) the smaller 15" body; and, (2) a slightly longer 24 7/8" scale length. Who asked for that? I haven't seen any evidence the guitar community, and new guitar buyers, were demanding these slightly-off design specs.

 

[renderit]

Perhaps the metal alloy and engineering tolerance matches those made by Gibson in the '50s ?

Oh, fyi, that sub caldera lair your looking at ? it's a complete dump.. A 2.5 mile drop with a trailer home at the bottom, furnished with a flashlight, tin of beans and a box of matches, though Id think twice before striking a match down there.. Particularly after the beans.. Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates have it on timeshare. You could go thirds with them..

Then again do you really want to be seen around such people ? You've a reputation to think of..

I doubt that. But I do like the bridges, though not enough to change any on my Gibsons.

They gots beans, I'm in. But I will not share anything with total tools.

I would not have sat with either of them at lunch. Nor would I now.

I do have a reputation. Look at where we are now, them vs. me...

 

[57gold]

Conclusion: I think Collings misjudged the market somewhat by offering an alternative 335-style semi-hollow electric with (1) the smaller 15" body; and, (2) a slightly longer 24 7/8" scale length. Who asked for that? I haven't seen any evidence the guitar community, and new guitar buyers, were demanding these slightly-off design specs.

Bill's intention was not to make replicas, but Collings' guitars. He would not have bothered. His goal was to make his own models that followed classic forms. His view: you want a replica of a 1960s Gibson? Go the the Gibson CS or have some other replica guy make one.

His original entry into the ES form was the I-35 Deluxe, which is a solid wood carved top, back and sides. Knowing him, he initially was a bit aghast at making any plywood instruments. He was a "wood fanatic", on my first visit to his shop in 1989 he picked up a pile of BRW boards and planted a big kiss on them saying, "I love this wood". Took a number of years to develop his own "formula" for making laminated wood for the LC versions, which they have continued to refine for the Vintage version and other models.

None of Collings' electrics are attempted replicas. The City Limits isn't a Les Paul replacement, it's an alternative riff on that form with adjustments made like back carve outs and a neck joint that Bill thought would be perceived as evolutionary improvements.

Agree with you that 1950 to late 1960s Gibsons were well made, close to the level of detail that Collings puts into every instrument.

 

[Sol]

The Collings 24 7/8" scale length could offer an improvement in tuning and intonation that is apparent in 25" scale guitars.
Whatever the case, Im certain that Collings didnt pluck this particular scale length out of a hat.

 

[57gold]

Bill never pulled stuff out of a hat. He thought about it, tested it, tried other approaches and processes and then would start over and redo it all until he thought it was right. And once he got to a final product, he kept on thinking of ways to improve it.

 

[renderit]

He was definitely a genius.

And I believe he left the company in good hands.

I have been there several times before and after his passing.

Wonderful place.

And they do tours if called ahead on Fridays (I think) if you are ever in the Dripping Springs/Southwest Austin area.

(the wood room is amazing).

I still get Christmas cards form them I look forward to.

 

[bern1]

Any Collings instrument I have ever picked up has sounded superlative. I believe he built the acoustic dreadnoughts to sound like Martins but can’t speak to the electrics, as I’ve never spent significant time with one. I own a Waterloo and it sounds exactly like a pre war Gibson L-00, which was Bill’s intent when he started making them.

 

[mob]

I'd love to own a '64 ES 3xx (probably not gonna happen) but my 2020 I35 lc is the best guitar I've ever owned. Fit, finish,sound, and vision. Tobacco burst w/ 60's neck. Low wind Lollars.

 

[ourmaninthenorth]

Love the one you're with Pal.

That is a beautiful guitar.

 

[57gold]

Very sweet!!!

Just arrived, played it for an hour and totally dig it. Great light weight and substantial neck. Great intonation and very balanced in all positions, zero dead or choke spots.

Sold 3 vintage ESs in last year knowing that this was on order. Felt OK about letting the old ladies go to new homes because I loved playing an I-35 Deluxe that I had refit with Throbaks and a pick guard. When Steve at Collings let me know that the LCV was in the works and might be their ultimate guitar for vintage feel, was in for one.

This one has Ron Ellis pickups, a low wind neck and signature bridge, that initially I can say sound pretty special. Clarity without excessive brightness and very much matched in output neck to bridge, which is cool. Proof will be through a cranked amp at a gig.

Was somewhat concerned that neck would be too thin for my preference, but it seems to very similar to a 1964 335 that I used to own for 25 years, until recently, which was a bit more tapered than the 1959 that also left the ranch, but also cool. I plays way better than either.

FWIW, my first distressed finished Collings, that I didn't provide the distress to. Looks like they left the plasticizer out like Tom Bartlett does on his instruments, resulting in instant checking.