Burst Candidate '9-1244': Calling All Burst "Authenticators"

[jb_abides]

Burst candidate '9-1244' being shown by Trogly on behalf of owner.

I know this has been cited here before at LPF, by @sws1 and others, but here's a closer look... What say you?

NOTE: For Arm-chair "Authentication" - This is NOT Actual Authentication

 

[S. Weiger]

Very interesting and informative video, thx for posting!

I'm definitely not a hardcore expert, but:
Guitar looks like a real Burst to me, with the issues mentioned. Control cavity looks right, and (most of) the body looks ok and naturally aged.

But serial # 9 1244 (although restamped) is not consistent with the "shorter long" neck tenon Gibson began routing somewhere in the first part of 1960. This tenon looks just like that.
I would expect a full long neck tenon on all 50's Bursts / GT / Customs.. are there exeptions?

Or is it in fact a fairly early 1960 body/neck "reworked" to be a 1959 burst?
Or a real 1959 body with a 1960 neck? I'd need to see it in person to really know more..

Also: P90 pickguard cut for humbuckers? Looks that way to me..

Disclaimer: The above is o.c. only my own observations & opinion based on the video, and I don't feel I qualify as an authenticator

 

[sws1]

That guitar has been around awhile. Here it is in Burst Gang (I think).

Some deleted threads about it, but generally thought to be a reneck.

 

[sws1]

The writeup when it was at Jim's Guitars in 2015

- - - - -


Les Paul Standard
$325,000.00
Gibson

1959 Highly figured very unusual 3D quilt and flame maple top, amazingly great sounding guitar with super strong PAF's, 8.80k double-white neck pickup, 8.14k double-black bridge pickup, nice beefy 59 neck profile that fits perfectly in your hand, comfortable weight at just over 9 lbs, comes complete with the original 5 latch brown-pink Lifton hardshell case.​

====

Joe B said he played it, but that it had issues not "described" in the listing above. Presumably the reneck.

 

[ourmaninthenorth]

What's the score with that wear patch?

 

[jb_abides]

What's the score with that wear patch?

Looks like a place for propping fingers whilst thumb-strumming. And lots of hand chemistry going on.

 

[ourmaninthenorth]

Looks like a place for propping fingers whilst thumb-strumming. And lots of hand chemistry going on.

I'd wear that (geddit?) if they had wire wool for fingers.

 

[Xpensive Wino]

Thread 'New LPF Rule: Inquiries to authenticate/legitimize a Les Paul as real or counterfeit'

Mar 22, 2015

Dear Les Paul Forum Members,

In the past few weeks, we have experienced a few incidents when members have posted an inquiry as to whether a Les Paul is real or counterfeit/fake.

One of the benefits of membership in the Les Paul Forum is the ability to help one another with information about guitars, including help with authenticating them.

However, we must avoid the unintended consequences of questioning the authenticity of a guitar on a whim, thus becoming armchair "judge and jury", and putting an owner of what may be a legitimate guitar in the position of having to defend the...

• mikeslub
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Vintage 1952-1960 Les Pauls

• 

 

[jb_abides]

This is just a 'share your opinion thread', not an actual authentication thread, as no one here AFAIK owns or is inquiring about this guitar's actual authenticity.

 

[jimmi]

Body looks right. Tenon is short. There are many renecked 50s LP around. It would have to be priced as a renecked Burst for my taste. If it was done in the 60s then it shouldn’t be that different from a non-altered guitar. Player grade guitars like this have the advantage of allowing you to fix any issues without worrying about affecting value

 

[matkoehler]

Looks fantastic. I wouldn't think twice about the tenon; it's all about who was working that day and what they had to work with. Same is true today...slight variation is to be expected there.

 

[S. Weiger]

Looks fantastic. I wouldn't think twice about the tenon; it's all about who was working that day and what they had to work with. Same is true today...slight variation is to be expected there.

Slight variation yes, but with all due respect, IMO this neck joint / tenon looks clearly what is found in 1960 and not in the 50's, at least from what I have learned here at LPF & my own experience through the years.

But, as I asked in post #2: Are there exeptions?

This from the video:

 

[sws1]

^^^^ And look at the black light of the neck cavity.

 

[matkoehler]

Slight variation yes, but with all due respect, IMO this neck joint / tenon looks clearly what is found in 1960 and not in the 50's, at least from what I have learned here at LPF & my own experience through the years.

But, as I asked in post #2: Are there exeptions?

This from the video:

View attachment 27982

Totally…just saying I wouldn’t disqualify it over that one feature. Looked really good otherwise but I don’t have the guitar in front of me.

 

[S. Weiger]

Totally…just saying I wouldn’t disqualify it over that one feature. Looked really good otherwise but I don’t have the guitar in front of me.

Right, and I don't think we actually disqualify it as a real Burst? I for one am just questioning the originality of it, based on the video etc.
Just my own opinion, YMMV .
And yes, it sure is a spectacular top.

 

[bern1]

No gap at all between the end of the neck and the edge of the pickup ring. Could be the angle of the photo.

 

[S. Weiger]

No gap at all between the end of the neck and the edge of the pickup ring. Could be the angle of the photo.

Not within tolerance you think?

 

[Cody]

Low logo+tenon=reneck, at best.

 

[potionwerks]

Many speculate it to be a MAX clone with some vintage parts.

 

[bern1]

Not within tolerance you think?

I’ve never seen a real sunburst without that slight gap. Just one data point.
To quote Tampa Red, when it’s “Tight Like That” it’s not necessarily good when talking about this aspect of sunburst Les Pauls.
To be clear, I’ve never seen this particular guitar, the photo is not particularly revealing and I ain’t buying anyway.