** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

[hogy]

54s (wraptail 53-55s) are my favorite Les Pauls, the tone of that bridge construction is superior to the ABR.
I have an incredible playing and sounding 54 with original P90s and I wanted another one with humbuckers.

I don't like "Burst conversions", though. Give me a Goldtop any day over a non-center-seam "Burst".

It's all about the synergy.

To me, a wraparound has a certain frequency "signature", as does the ABR-1 setup.

Likewise, PAFs and P-90s each have their sound.

When you put them together, I have found time and time again that a P-90 and a wraparound go together like a lock and key, and the same is true for ABR-1s and PAFs.

Yes, played acoustically, the wraparounds ring differently/"better", but plugged in, things change.

Just as I have never heard a '56 P-90 Les Paul sound as good as the best wraparound models, I've never heard a wraparound/PAF combo that floored me.

 

[hoss]

Just as I have never heard a '56 P-90 Les Paul sound as good as the best wraparound models, I've never heard a wraparound/PAF combo that floored me.

Should that be the case the guitar can still be converted to an ABR-1.

EDIT: Here is a pic of the pickup setup on my other 54 (the one with the original P90s)

 

[Rev.WillieVK]

GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY! that flame gives me wood!

 

[JIMI55LP]

With all those undiclosed issues, couldn't you get your money back from Ebay/Paypal? I hope your able to turn that frown upside down?

 

[jimmi]

54s (wraptail 53-55s) are my favorite Les Pauls, the tone of that bridge construction is superior to the ABR.
I have an incredible playing and sounding 54 with original P90s and I wanted another one with humbuckers.

I don't like "Burst conversions", though. Give me a Goldtop any day over a non-center-seam "Burst".

You occasionally run across them. I have two that are either center seam or close. Not all the actual bursts are center seam. I have sem several 58s and early 59s that are off seam to about the d string. Never toward the G but several at the D.

 

[hogy]

You occasionally run across them. I have two that are either center seam or close. Not all the actual bursts are center seam. I have sem several 58s and early 59s that are off seam to about the d string. Never toward the G but several at the D.

A good number of '60 Standards have the seam close to the g-string.

 

[MapleFlame]

I have seen one piece tops as well.

 

[boogieongtr]

One thing I believe may be throwing people off is that the bridge pickup on wraparound Les Pauls is way too low, and raising the pole pieces does little to nothing.

If this is the only way you've ever heard your guitar, address this issue first before you reach for the router. You might be shocked with what you're hearing...

The way to do it is to lower all the pole pieces down as far as they will go. Now shim the pickup using wooden shims until it is as close to the strings as possible without touching.

Sometimes the mounting screws won't reach all the way into the wood after you do this. You'll have to find longer screws or "mod" the cavity. On my guitar I installed a small block of wood into the bottom of the pickup rout (secured with a single humbucker ring screw in the center, so yes, I did drill one hole) for the mounting screws to go into.

I sanded the shims for my guitar to be slightly slanted, giving the pickup more clearance on the bass side, with the high e pole almost kissing the string.

Set up like this, that P-90 will scream like the best PAF you've ever heard. Seriously, it sounds absolutely amazing. Roll it back and it clears up to an almost acoustic like chime, that's something no PAF will do.

One "downside" is that the bridge pickup cover is going to either be too short, showing a gap, or (depending on neck angle) you'll see the "ugly" part where early covers were sanded to slip into the rout.

Thanks for the set up info. I have a 52 (with a MoJo Bridge on order) that I'm the second owner of. I'll give it a try. I play my P90 guitars at home but that is it. How do you deal with the hum of a P90 guitar in a live situation? I play live and 95% of the time we mic the band. The hum is amplified thru the PA and impossible to deal with.

None of this was revealed to me when I talked to mine about this guitar. Still don't think I would convert it myself but a bit more understandable. He told me it was all original except the bigsby and it had a 50s case. Considering he was asking $3k more than for what I paid George for mine that does not have these issues I am happy with the one I bought. If sold to you as a guitar with issues limited to the bigsby damage and playing wear then you should definitely get some money back.

With all those undiclosed issues, couldn't you get your money back from Ebay/Paypal? I hope your able to turn that frown upside down?

Mike told me the guitar was straight up and all there. Looking back at the pic Mike sent me it was in a 50's Lifton. I had to do a bank wire transfer. I'm still waiting for a reply from Mike.

 

[Wilko]

Great looking top!

Have fun with YOUR guitar!

 

[yeti]

Thanks for the set up info. I have a 52 (with a MoJo Bridge on order) that I'm the second owner of. I'll give it a try. I play my P90 guitars at home but that is it. How do you deal with the hum of a P90 guitar in a live situation? I play live and 95% of the time we mic the band. The hum is amplified thru the PA and impossible to deal with.

Certain clubs are really bad with regards to hum.I fight this with my tele and P-90 guitars BUT I have found that if the hum is impossible to manage then you're playing with too much gain/ drive. But yeah, Humbuckers do have the edge when it comes to EMI.

 

[boogieongtr]

I honestly don't understand this PAF obsession. .

Possibly because: 1) We have The Beauty of the Burst, Burst Believers and various other Burst books, 2) Most of the LP Slingers played Bursts as their #1 guitar. Mike Bloomfield, Eric Clapton, Mick Taylor, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page, Charlie Daniels, Gary Moore, Billy Gibbons, Jeff Beck, Duane Allman, Gary Rossington, Joe Walsh, Gary Richrath, Steve Lukathier, Slash, Joe B, and a lot of others I haven't mentioned
3) Gibson releases the R8, R9 and the Collectors Choice series.

Now let me ask you 1) How many books are there about Goldtop Les Pauls? 2) How any LP slingers played P90 guitars as their #1 guitar? 3) What percentage of Goldtops compared to Bursts does Gibson make?

I'm 61 and every guitar player that influenced me played a Burst. For me I love the flame!! eace2

 

[J.D.]

I suppose you could also ask these same questions about goldtop conversions. :hmm

 

[lpjunkie]

I'd love an early 50's goldtop...yummy.

 

[viking LP]

Even with the issues, what I found under the gold is IMOP a once in a lifetime find. I am glad I bought the guitar! So as not to be a party pooper Charlie .........

That's what i thought when i read your original post.From what i was able to see from the flame top,it looked amazing.Since it's already not easy to find a original burst with the kind of flame top i prefer and since it would be way out of my price range anyway,i would be thrilled to find the perfect flame top on a 50's GT with a few issues !Especially if the guitar plays and sounds great,of course !Congratulations !

 

[jimmi]

I suppose you could also ask these same questions about goldtop conversions. :hmm

One of Dicky Betts primary guitars was a converted 55 std, Beck played a 54 or 55 with PAFs, Frampton played a 54 custom converted with PAFs.

 

[jimmi]

Possibly because: 1) We have The Beauty of the Burst, Burst Believers and various other Burst books, 2) Most of the LP Slingers played Bursts as their #1 guitar. Mike Bloomfield, Eric Clapton, Mick Taylor, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page, Charlie Daniels, Gary Moore, Billy Gibbons, Jeff Beck, Duane Allman, Gary Rossington, Joe Walsh, Gary Richrath, Steve Lukathier, Slash, Joe B, and a lot of others I haven't mentioned
3) Gibson releases the R8, R9 and the Collectors Choice series.

Now let me ask you 1) How many books are there about Goldtop Les Pauls? 2) How any LP slingers played P90 guitars as their #1 guitar? 3) What percentage of Goldtops compared to Bursts does Gibson make?

I'm 61 and every guitar player that influenced me played a Burst. For me I love the flame!! eace2

There are a few old blues players on p90 guitars. I love the tone myself but also love PAFs.

 

[Wilko]

The recipe that gets well into 6 figures is humbuckers and a tune-o-matic bridge. Period.

That is a HUGE premium over any stop tail goldtop.

Convert? You'd be foolish not at least consider it.

I did, and never looked back.

Nice score!

 

[hogy]

Possibly because: 1) We have The Beauty of the Burst, Burst Believers and various other Burst books, 2) Most of the LP Slingers played Bursts as their #1 guitar. Mike Bloomfield, Eric Clapton, Mick Taylor, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page, Charlie Daniels, Gary Moore, Billy Gibbons, Jeff Beck, Duane Allman, Gary Rossington, Joe Walsh, Gary Richrath, Steve Lukathier, Slash, Joe B, and a lot of others I haven't mentioned
3) Gibson releases the R8, R9 and the Collectors Choice series.

Now let me ask you 1) How many books are there about Goldtop Les Pauls? 2) How any LP slingers played P90 guitars as their #1 guitar? 3) What percentage of Goldtops compared to Bursts does Gibson make?

I'm 61 and every guitar player that influenced me played a Burst. For me I love the flame!! eace2

You know, I guess I just don't care as much about what those guys played. That is not to say I don't love the tones they got, I certainly do. And I have guitars that get that tone.

But for myself, I just find that I like P-90 Les Pauls every bit as much, and possibly more the older I get. They are definitely in no way inferior to the PAF versions.

I just recently dug up old cassette tapes from gigs I played in the 1990s. Back then my two main Gibsons were a '57 Junior and a '56 Les Paul Standard conversion (yes, I know, I got the guitar in a trade already converted and refinished). Both guitars sound ridiculous, I still have them both, too. Having owned and played them for that long, I know them very well.

But guess what, on quite a few songs on these old tapes I couldn't tell you for sure which guitar I played.

Maybe you remember Kerry (j45)'s threads from a few years ago where he put up clips of a whole bunch of vintage Gibsons as diverse as 175s, PAF conversions, SGs, Firebirds and ES-330s, and nobody could identify them by listening.

All this is just to say once again, I don't understand the PAF fetishism. What is up with this conformism where people just have to have flamed maple and humbuckers? It's played out like SRV's hat.

If somebody wants to build yet another burst clone from scratch, go ahead while I yawn. To me it's like Fender "relics". At one time a beat up Strat meant something and it was really cool. Now that vibe has been killed by the inflation of that look. It's no longer special. That's how I feel about these faux bursts, conversions, whatever.

What bugs me is when original guitars get converted, issues or not. Especially today. I really think it's wrong, and in the long run, it will be seen as an unfortunate fad.


Anyway, I'm just rambling...

How do you deal with the hum of a P90 guitar in a live situation? I play live and 95% of the time we mic the band. The hum is amplified thru the PA and impossible to deal with.

It just doesn't bug me that much. At least not for the music I play. It's electric guitar. I roll up the volume and there is electricity buzzing in the air. Just like a Hendrix album. Call me weird, I kinda dig it. Besides that, I ride my volume control(s) all the time and shut it down when it needs to be quiet.

 

[yeti]

If somebody wants to build yet another burst clone from scratch, go ahead while I yawn. To me it's like Fender "relics". At one time a beat up Strat meant something and it was really cool. Now that vibe has been killed by the inflation of that look. It's no longer special. That's how I feel about these faux bursts, conversions, whatever.

What bugs me is when original guitars get converted, issues or not. Especially today. I really think it's wrong, and in the long run, it will be seen as an unfortunate fad.


Anyway, I'm just rambling...

Your ramblings are 100% spot on, IMHO.:salude

 

[Greco]

OH YEAH!. :yah