My new 1958 les paull replica

JReeves · Jan 21, 2019

making and buying fakes is an attack on private ownership

deytookerjaabs · Jan 21, 2019

JReeves said:
making and buying fakes is an attack on private ownership

You're not absolving anything of note from my original statement, but you're free to keep repeating yourself.

I can do that too, watch this: Blue lipstick makes your lips blue :##

NYCBURST · Jan 21, 2019

JPP-1 said:
Honestly I’d put my two historics up against any replica. I’m in The NY area too. You ever want to have a tone showdown, lol, feel free to hit me up

Even if we suppose the guy comfortable with infringing on someone’s intellectual property actually uses the old wood he alleges, how does he know the lumber providers he uses aren’t equally casual about laws and ethics. Is this mythic old wood carbon dated by the Luthier or is there a chain of custody dating back to the great mythic forest the log was felled from in 1902? Old wood sounds like extra virgin olive oil, unless you buy an actual burst, you never know what you’re going to get

I have no clue what you’re talking about regarding electronics since last I looked these fakes didn’t come equipped with genuine Pafs. Preference does not equal better. There are a wide variety of excellent PAF reproductions including the custom buckers.

Drink all the old wood coolaid you want but until you can show me a scintilla actual data that all old wood sounds better than all new wood and that the fake Les Paul your slinging actually has this mythic old wood, save the farm raised condescending BS for the fish market. The one thing I know buying my Brazilian R9 from Gibson is that all the correct species of woods are used, and the build methods follow the original recipe where it counts.

.

If you make a statement like you just did : That there is "no evidence that old wood sounds better than new wood" This conversation is over between you and I. It leads me to believe that you obviously do not own any vintage guitars and if you do, you just haven't the ear to hear the difference.

J.D. · Jan 21, 2019

It's funny how every single vintage guitar all of a sudden is magical sounding. At one time when they were just used guitars there was plenty of talk about good and bad ones, not unlike today's historics.

Also funny to read all these spins and tangents, some more wild than others, to somehow justify infringing on Gibson's IP. This topic is so cut and dry IMHO.

NYCBURST · Jan 21, 2019

J.D. said:
It's funny how every single vintage guitar all of a sudden is magical sounding. At one time when they were just used guitars there was plenty of talk about good and bad ones, not unlike today's historics.

Also funny to read all these spins and tangents, some more wild than others, to somehow justify infringing on Gibson's IP. This topic is so cut and dry IMHO.

I don't recall seeing someone write that. But to say there isn't a difference between old growth wood and new wood is ridiculous

JReeves · Jan 21, 2019

J.D. said:
funny to read all these spins and tangents, some more wild than others, to somehow justify infringing on Gibson's IP. This topic is so cut and dry IMHO.

exactly

NYCBURST · Jan 21, 2019

Yeah, I wouldn't want to infringe on masterpieces like this.

deytookerjaabs · Jan 21, 2019

J.D. said:
Also funny to read all these spins and tangents, some more wild than others, to somehow justify infringing on Gibson's IP. This topic is so cut and dry IMHO.

And it takes a massive leap of stupidity to take crystal meth.... Yet it being illegal and telling people how completely moronic it is to touch that crap which everyone knows AHEAD OF TIME ruins your life & those around you won't change the reality that tons of people still do it.

You know a reasonable solution to get people to stop forging 'bursts?

Here's the answer: we don't have a solution because there isn't one.

No amount of ceast/desist letters and legal or peer pressure etc will stop it from happening as whole as those who do it feel justified & no one will change that. At the most you might convince a small portion of people but back to reality is that most anyone who has bought one probably made up their mind to take the leap.

Yet, you can scream at the top of your lungs all day about "faker" "poser" or whatever, that doesn't change anything in a positive manner.

Dammit I've never bought a replica, why am I doing this? :laugh2:

It's like the stupid guitar arguments, whatever conclusion you draw, your observations and how far you take the hyperbole of magic guitars is for you and you alone to share your thoughts... but the cancerous absolutist mind set as if you know the universal truth? Yuck.

Tom Wittrock · Jan 21, 2019

Tom Wittrock said:
If it's about "what you like", would you own one that did not have the forged logos?
If not, why not? :ganz

NYCBURST said:
Tom, Why would you Have a complete replica without the logo?

NYCBURST said:
You missed the Joke Tom.. in other words I'm saying nobody appreciates a half-ass forgery..

Then you should have said "anyone" instead of "you".

And in dodging my question [which I included here] you reinforce my statement that there is no need for those logos except posing.
You and others tell us how the replicas are superior to Gibson reissues, but still cannot give a valid reason for needing the forged logos on the headstock [and forged serial numbers usually].
And if you say they somehow do improve the sound and play ability, I would love to hear that explained! :wah

Tom Wittrock · Jan 21, 2019

deytookerjaabs said:
If you buy a Gibson you support an ownership who gets a fat bottom line from building guitars in factories where Gibson supervisors have seen innocent women being beaten to a bloody pulp on a factory floor for making a little mistake.

Since you live in Nashville, I assume you have links to the local news stories where this happened?
Otherwise, I'm calling BULLSHIT! :wah

JReeves · Jan 21, 2019

deytookerjaabs said:
You know a reasonable solution to get people to stop forging 'bursts?

Here's the answer:

personal responsibility. don't buy em, don't build em.

deytookerjaabs · Jan 21, 2019

Tom Wittrock said:
Since you live in Nashville, I assume you have links to the local news stories where this happened?
Otherwise, I'm calling BULLSHIT! :wah

Yeah...keep calling bullshit all ya want :laugh2:

Ren Wall, as much a part of Gibson history and the Gibson family as anyone else and as honest of a dude as you'll ever meet.

ourmaninthenorth · Jan 21, 2019

deytookerjaabs said:
And it takes a massive leap of stupidity to take crystal meth.... Yet it being illegal and telling people how completely moronic it is to touch that crap which everyone knows AHEAD OF TIME ruins your life & those around you won't change the reality that tons of people still do it.

You know a reasonable solution to get people to stop forging 'bursts?

Here's the answer: we don't have a solution because there isn't one.

No amount of ceast/desist letters and legal or peer pressure etc will stop it from happening as whole as those who do it feel justified & no one will change that. At the most you might convince a small portion of people but back to reality is that most anyone who has bought one probably made up their mind to take the leap.

Yet, you can scream at the top of your lungs all day about "faker" "poser" or whatever, that doesn't change anything in a positive manner.

Dammit I've never bought a replica, why am I doing this? :laugh2:

It's like the stupid guitar arguments, whatever conclusion you draw, your observations and how far you take the hyperbole of magic guitars is for you and you alone to share your thoughts... but the cancerous absolutist mind set as if you know the universal truth? Yuck.

Forgive the rather opportunistic highlighting of your post if you would, but I think it rather goes to the point I'm making.

Namely, you are quite correct in your assertion. Whilst there is a customer base for fakes, then there will be fakes.

Now here's the rub, the fakers and their clients can do as they wish, but I'd rather they did it somewhere else, and not on this Forum, dedicated for good or ill to the Gibson Guitar Co, specifically The Les Paul.

There are already quasi protocols in place forbidding their sale and display here, an obvious nod in the direction of their moodiness, why not take the next small step and rid this Forum of them entirely? I don't believe for one second that the Owners of this site endorse fakes, my puzzlement stems from the missed opportunity to stand apart from the other places in having a blanket ban on them.

In this world of skulduggery wouldn't it be great to have a little corner of the interweb where one can go and breath some fresh air?

I propose for the last time the following proposition to the collective here : If it says Gibson on the head stock, and it's not a Gibson built guitar, then it's persona non grata. Yay or Nay?

deytookerjaabs · Jan 21, 2019

ourmaninthenorth said:
Forgive the rather opportunistic highlighting of your post if you would, but I think it rather goes to the point I'm making.

Namely, you are quite correct in your assertion. Whilst there is a customer base for fakes, then there will be fakes.

Now here's the rub, the fakers and their clients can do as they wish, but I'd rather they did it somewhere else, and not on this Forum, dedicated for good or ill to the Gibson Guitar Co, specifically The Les Paul.

There are already quasi protocols in place forbidding their sale and display here, an obvious nod in the direction of their moodiness, why not take the next small step and rid this Forum of them entirely? I don't believe for one second that the Owners of this site endorse fakes, my puzzlement stems from the missed opportunity to stand apart from the other places in having a blanket ban on them.

In this world of skulduggery wouldn't it be great to have a little corner of the interweb where one can go and breath some fresh air?

I propose for the last time the following proposition to the collective here : If it says Gibson on the head stock, and it's not a Gibson built guitar, then it's persona non grata. Yay or Nay?

If outing forgers/forging was my job or at least part of my interest & enthusiasm I'd rather it be out in the open where you have people sharing pictures of the guitars. Or, at least if not in the open, a "hidden" section or whatever where you get pictures. What ya sweep under the rug you never see, what you never see you never know.

Every replica posted is one that becomes harder to sell online or at least to the knowing consumers as "real." I'm sure keen observers already noticed little "outs" by looking at some of the Replicas.

MeHereNow · Jan 21, 2019

Everyone's "2 cents" in this threads adds up to $6.70

ourmaninthenorth · Jan 21, 2019

deytookerjaabs said:
If outing forgers/forging was my job or at least part of my interest & enthusiasm I'd rather it be out in the open where you have people sharing pictures of the guitars. Or, at least if not in the open, a "hidden" section or whatever where you get pictures. What ya sweep under the rug you never see, what you never see you never know.

Every replica posted is one that becomes harder to sell online or at least to the knowing consumers as "real." I'm sure keen observers already noticed little "outs" by looking at some of the Replicas.

If this was the only place where they're displayed your argument stands.

My point however is in the plethora of platforms that have no problem displaying fakes, the LPF could stand out by being the one that doesn't.

NYCBURST · Jan 21, 2019

Tom Wittrock said:
Then you should have said "anyone" instead of "you".

And in dodging my question [which I included here] you reinforce my statement that there is no need for those logos except posing.
You and others tell us how the replicas are superior to Gibson reissues, but still cannot give a valid reason for needing the forged logos on the headstock [and forged serial numbers usually].
And if you say they somehow do improve the sound and play ability, I would love to hear that explained! :wah

I've never said that a logo improves the sound and playability. There isn't any need for the logo, if it's what I want, then that's what
I want. I'm not asking you to like it. Like I said before, I like old growth wood, non-plastic lacquer and brazilian boards. If the situation
were reversed and you were the one who liked replicas, I might not agree with you, I might consider them fakes, but I wouldn't be calling
people whom I've never met "posers" and implying that we are intending to fool someone. It's not the case. Many original burst owners also
have a couple of replicas, you know what I mean..?

deytookerjaabs · Jan 21, 2019

ourmaninthenorth said:
If this was the only place where they're displayed your argument stands.

My point however is in the plethora of platforms that have no problem displaying fakes, the LPF could stand out by being the one that doesn't.

Oh, I thought they were pretty much unmentionables elsewhere? I know TGP doesn't do replicas. I'm pretty sure I first heard about Bartletts and some of the other ones on this site! The most I know about them is from the Yaron build threads on the tele site.

Yet, partscasters with Fender logos are flippin' everywhere you look. Replica stuff all seems very hush hush to me?

Tom Wittrock · Jan 21, 2019

deytookerjaabs said:
Yeah...keep calling bullshit all ya want

I certainly will. If you expect me to watch an hour and a half movie to see if you made your point, I'm saying your story is BULLSHIT. :rolleyes

Besides, you posted the Heritage factory, not the Gibson factory. Another fail on your part.
Got anything better to back up this claim? :ganz

Tom Wittrock · Jan 21, 2019

NYCBURST said:
I've never said that a logo improves the sound and playability. There isn't any need for the logo, if it's what I want, then that's what
I want. I'm not asking you to like it. Like I said before, I like old growth wood, non-plastic lacquer and brazilian boards. If the situation
were reversed and you were the one who liked replicas, I might not agree with you, I might consider them fakes, but I wouldn't be calling
people whom I've never met "posers" and implying that we are intending to fool someone. It's not the case. Many original burst owners also
have a couple of replicas, you know what I mean..?

I know that once again you dodged the question.
Is that because you can't back your rants? Seems like it. :hee

My new 1958 les paull replica

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