PAF's and Alnico 4: sound too "lower mid heavy" to me...

Depending upon your setup A4 can drive the lower mids to the point where the tone starts to choke. In a case like this try pure Nickel strings. Pure Nickel wound string are less magnetically active that Nickel plated Steel so they will drive the amp less on the low end and essentially give the effect of a little bit of headroom increase on the low end.

diskolos1 said:

My guitar is a 1995 Les Paul Standard birdsey (see attached picture below)

500k CTS pots, Vitamin Q caps (.022 bridge, .015 neck), 50's wiring. Replaced the tailpiece with an aluminium one (made a big difference) My guitar has a standard Nashville bridge, I never tried to replace the studs and thumbwheels and I don't know what they are made of.

What would you suggest as an upgrade for them?

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When checking material a piece of hardware is made of - just use any magnet. Steel used is always regular carbon steel and it is ferromagnetic - it will be pulled by a magnet. Brass is not ferromagnetic. (So check posts and wheels under the stock Nashville as it is now, if these are brass - nonmagnetic. Also, saddles on Nashville should be brass, so check them too with the magnet.)

Tailpiece studs - screws that hold tailpiece - these are very important. These really should be made of steel in order to have maximum of the the improvement aluminum tailpiece makes over zinc in a LP. There are a lot of options/makes, and I've tried 6 so far (with only 3 more to go, LOL), but 2 best sounding are Pigtail ($36.50 with bushings) and Retrospec ($25 studs only). Best sounding means closest to vintage ones I have. Considering your impression on low mids in that guitar that should be tamed, Retrospec might be more to your preference/needs. (no affiliation on my part for the 2 mentioned, just a happy customer).

http://www.historicmakeovers.com/store/retrospec-steel-tailpiece-studs/
http://www.pigtailmusic.com/Products.php (scroll down ~ 1 page)

Change these first and hear if it solves the issue. Further hardware improvements are more involved and not as straightforward as this (simple replacement), but it's always better one step at a time, IME.

SURELY, once the steel studs are in, pickups' re-adjustment is necessary - height of them and poles on pickups. Also some adjustment on amp will be needed, but you'll hear yourself, if you try this mod.

korus said:

When checking material a piece of hardware is made of - just use any magnet. Steel used is always regular carbon steel and it is ferromagnetic - it will be pulled by a magnet. Brass is not ferromagnetic. (So check posts and wheels under the stock Nashville as it is now, if these are brass - nonmagnetic. Also, saddles on Nashville should be brass, so check them too with the magnet.)

Tailpiece studs - screws that hold tailpiece - these are very important. These really should be made of steel in order to have maximum of the the improvement aluminum tailpiece makes over zinc in a LP. There are a lot of options/makes, and I've tried 6 so far (with only 3 more to go, LOL), but 2 best sounding are Pigtail ($36.50 with bushings) and Retrospec ($25 studs only). Best sounding means closest to vintage ones I have. Considering your impression on low mids in that guitar that should be tamed, Retrospec might be more to your preference/needs. (no affiliation on my part for the 2 mentioned, just a happy customer).

http://www.historicmakeovers.com/store/retrospec-steel-tailpiece-studs/
http://www.pigtailmusic.com/Products.php (scroll down ~ 1 page)

Change these first and hear if it solves the issue. Further hardware improvements are more involved and not as straightforward as this (simple replacement), but it's always better one step at a time, IME.

SURELY, once the steel studs are in, pickups' re-adjustment is necessary - height of them and poles on pickups. Also some adjustment on amp will be needed, but you'll hear yourself, if you try this mod.

Click to expand...

All that info is gold, thank you very much! I can't believe that all these years I've been playing with brass studs pffffff.... I will try some steel ones asap.

I can see that the companies you've suggested offer a vintage or historic version (for the bushings). Which one should I choose for my 1995 Standard? Also what is your opinion on the Faber parts? They have this "all parts included" conversion from Nashville to ABR bridge. Would you suggest going that route?

diskolos1 said:

All that info is gold, thank you very much! I can't believe that all these years I've been playing with brass studs pffffff.... I will try some steel ones asap.

I can see that the companies you've suggested offer a vintage or historic version (for the bushings). Which one should I choose for my 1995 Standard? Also what is your opinion on the Faber parts? They have this "all parts included" conversion from Nashville to ABR bridge. Would you suggest going that route?

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Well... Larry Carlton uses an aluminum tailpiece with a stock Nashville bridge on both his #1 and #2 335s.

I can't any fault with his tone? How come? :hmm

Larry Carlton uses Titanium saddles.

diskolos1 said:

All that info is gold, thank you very much! I can't believe that all these years I've been playing with brass studs pffffff.... I will try some steel ones asap.

I can see that the companies you've suggested offer a vintage or historic version (for the bushings). Which one should I choose for my 1995 Standard? Also what is your opinion on the Faber parts? They have this "all parts included" conversion from Nashville to ABR bridge. Would you suggest going that route?

Click to expand...

1. BUSHINGS AND STUDS LENGTH, HISTORIC vs VINTAGE

The first thing is to measure how deep is the hole. Take stud out, use a toothpick, put it through the bushing till it reaches bottom of the hole and mark it with a pencil and then measure it. If the hole is deep enough you can use vintage length studs with the stock bushing (which is historic length) OR you can replace it with VINTAGE LENGTH bushing. There are different ways to take out the bushings without damaging the top, but you can purchase bushing with the studs but try studs with the stock bushings FIRST. Even if it is OK, you can plan the replacement of bushings later/afterwards to try if you prefer the tone of replacement vintage length bushings.
The difference in mass might make an obvious difference tonewise , but IME the more important aspect of it is the exact type of steel being used. Pigtail e.g.bushings are brighter sounding than Gibson bushings both used with zinc(heavy) and aluminum(lightweight) tailpiece stock in guitars and aftermarket. I am about to test at least 4 aftermarket vintage length bushings in my 'mule' Gibson R8 in next couple of weeks, so we might discuss that issue after that.

note : IME the fit/grip (tightness of it) of the bushings in the hole/wood IS important but it does not have to be the tightest one in the world. Bushings might differ in the diameter size just a tiny little bit but it will make a significantly different tightness when fit into the hole (excuse my English, I'm not native in it). I'll describe the way I use to remove bushings from the guitar later, in some other posts.

2. CONVERSION PARTS : NASHVILLE -> ABR-1

I've checked at least 3 or 4 most popular ones and all of the conversion posts are made of steel - I would prefer brass but it seems none of them are. Also, I do not have enough experience with Nashville bridge what it sounds like in better LPs - I've had it in Epiphone but I've removed it promptly and went the harder way with that guitar - I've took bushings for Nashville out, filled the holes with maple dowels and installed the ABR-1 with regular posts. I think I would do the same with Gibson USA LP if I had one, but you might prefer not to. You might ask members here and on the other LP forum and gearpage what conversion is the one closest sounding to ABR-1 with posts screwed directly into the wood.
IME Nashville bridge vs ABR-1 is more hollow sounding and with less punch, but our preferences in tone differ so you might wait to hear the difference steel studs for tailpiece make first, then proceed with the optional bridge replacement, be it conversion parts or maple dowels.

To make it clear - not all parts have to be exact materials and shape as those used in vintage guitars. But it makes sense to follow the 'formula' pretty closely as it historically had 'best results' with LP tone. BUT do bear in mind that you can have/purchase ABR-1 that looks the part but does not sound half as good FOR YOU as the stock Nashville bridge. So, making baby steps with taking enough time to evaluate each and every step before taking another is the only safe way to go.

With the different combo of hardware you will have somewhat different perception of what different Alnico types of magnets do for you - a kind of a 'moving target'. As some say - 'everything affects everything'. That's why only the first hand experience is good enough.

I tend to be a bit of an A4 fanboy, I tend to find them balanced and articulate in most winds. I tend to find A5 to have a bit too much zing in the treble and have a too prominent, sometimes woofy bass. I find A2 to sometimes have too much low mid thickness and not enough definition. Just the way I hear 'em. I won't turn up my nose at any good PAF type pickup though, no matter what magnet it has.

jwalker said:

Larry Carlton uses Titanium saddles.

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Now that you mentioned it... I think it was Rick Wheeler that told that in the rigdown of the Hal Leonard video of Larry Carlton, which I think is from the late '80s.

Classic said:

The challenge I have is that my 'natural' tone is already pretty bright. Doesn't matter which guitar I play. It must my technique or something. My preference is towards gear that takes away from the highs for that very reason.

Any ideas why that may be? Or is it where the treble is run on the amps (usually about 1 o'clock).

I usually end up rolling the guitar bridge tone down to 3-4 on the dial.

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I've resolved my issue by lowering the tailpiece and raising the neck pickup. The tone is balanced now. Cheers all.

Monster said:

I tend to be a bit of an A4 fanboy, I tend to find them balanced and articulate in most winds. I tend to find A5 to have a bit too much zing in the treble and have a too prominent, sometimes woofy bass. I find A2 to sometimes have too much low mid thickness and not enough definition. Just the way I hear 'em. I won't turn up my nose at any good PAF type pickup though, no matter what magnet it has.

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Exactly my experience...my OX4s are anything but muddy!

When mixing A2 and A5 magnets in the same guitar I found it impossible to get a decent sound in the middle position...

I actually like an A4 in my bridge Antiquity because it does give a bit more oomph in the low mids compared to an A2...which is what I feel I need, as bridge pickups are naturally rather thin unless they're wound quite hot. I play more 'pushed clean' blues with overdrive for leads. Fender blackfaces and larger tweeds. If I was playing a cranked Marshall or something with a lot of gain, I'm pretty sure I'd gravitate towards brighter, more cutting pickups to hold their definition through it.....so an A5 would probably work better.

I can see how the A4 would at first sound rather 'vanilla' to some players as they are (in my experience) pretty even across the tonal spectrum. Their mids 'sag' more than 'bloom' like on some A2's. So each will suit different players better. I've tried an 'Illinois' unoriented A5 from Throbak (awesome service, Jon), and for my ears they were a bit too peaky the mids and a bit hard on attack. That's for my attack and playing style. I keep a new/polished A2 in the neck Antiquity to give a bit more definition that the stock weak mag, but maintains that plummy quality. And I like how the two pickups combine in the middle position, where I do a lot of playing, mostly at around 8 on the volumes.

2013 R8, stock hardware (alum bridge, steel posts, steel thumbwheels), 500k Mojo caps, .01µF neck cap, .022 µF bridge cap.

just my 0.02 on steel studs. using faber steel studs (good fit and good price too) on a very thin sounding LP classic and a luthier made LP replica with schaller (brass). i swapped recently the studs. what a difference: a clearer neck with the replica and much more meat with the LP Classic.

Classic said:

I've resolved my issue by lowering the tailpiece and raising the neck pickup. The tone is balanced now. Cheers all.

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This seems counter-intuitive. Raising the neck pickup should not have reduced the muddiness you were experiencing.
Moving it farther from the strings usually reduces muddiness.

For the record, I have come to prefer A5 in the neck and A2 in the bridge.

Hi Monroe-
Still using Ants for the A5 and A2 mags?
Steve B.

I tried for 15 minutes to delete this thread as it is a double and I could not find way. I suppose it might be another counter intuitive thing like last time but I did not write it down. I had to go through too many steps to remember.
Sorry
Steve B

Hamerfan-
Do you think you could tell me what to look for in "steel studs"? I must have 6-7 pair around my condo and they all feel, look, the same to me. A couple are shorter. But that's it. Weight is the same. I did replace 2 tailpieces with aluminum tailpieces from very old guitars in my 45 years of hoarding old guitar parts.
I have never seen this come up before about different steel studs for tailpieces ever. I read a lot of forum, I am a shut in for the most part do reading is essential for me.
Thank you very much in advance, and if there is better tone to be had, maybe tell me where to look?
Steve Buffington

SJB353 said:

Hi Monroe-
Still using Ants for the A5 and A2 mags?
Steve B.

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I've never owned a set of Ants (assuming you mean Antiquities)
I believe they have "aged" (weakened) A2 magnets.

Monroe said:

This seems counter-intuitive. Raising the neck pickup should not have reduced the muddiness you were experiencing.
Moving it farther from the strings usually reduces muddiness.

For the record, I have come to prefer A5 in the neck and A2 in the bridge.

Click to expand...

This is my preference also. I like to use two NECK winds somewhere in the mid 7K range. I leave the bridge alone, and if I feel it needs it, (some sound superb as is), I put in an A5 magnet to get me where I like to be. I really like the lower wind Ants because they are so clear and bell like, yet sing with a slightly compressed vowel like sustain that has kept me happy since the late 90's.

Most of my stock Ants in the neck spot are perfect as is and not all need this magnet swap. It may very well be the way the pickups are interacting in the specific guitar, more than the actual pickup itself, that I am reacting to.