Cream Fan
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Is there anything about a 50s dogear P90 to visually distinguish it from a 60s dogear P-90, i.e. baseplate shape, etc? Couldn't find anything in a search.
50s vs 60s Dogear P-90 Question
- Thread starter Cream Fan
- Start date
Can anybody give some indication?
Are there any books or something with good descriptions and/or pictures of P90 development?
Cheers
50s P90's used A2 and A5 magnets. That was a jazz era so A2 was used a good bit in the early 50s. A2 tends to be more mellow which jazz players liked.
It looks like most P90s used A5 as 1960 arrived though. A2 is underpowered for.RnR.
42awg formvar copper coil wire was common but enamel coating was used as well. The thicjness of the coating not the type determines how many winds will fit on a bobbin. Thus effects output.
P90s may not have had a linear design in their years of manufacture. Gibson used what they had in the stock room and didn'r count coil turns.
Basically you want 42awg wire and A5 magnets. A good P90 measures 7.3k0 to as high as 9ko but most people don't like P90s over the low 8ko range. 8.1ko is very typical today in Gibby P90s.
Nothing is written in stone as to how Gibson made P90s in the early days nor do we know how the pyramids were built
It looks like most P90s used A5 as 1960 arrived though. A2 is underpowered for.RnR.
42awg formvar copper coil wire was common but enamel coating was used as well. The thicjness of the coating not the type determines how many winds will fit on a bobbin. Thus effects output.
P90s may not have had a linear design in their years of manufacture. Gibson used what they had in the stock room and didn'r count coil turns.
Basically you want 42awg wire and A5 magnets. A good P90 measures 7.3k0 to as high as 9ko but most people don't like P90s over the low 8ko range. 8.1ko is very typical today in Gibby P90s.
Nothing is written in stone as to how Gibson made P90s in the early days nor do we know how the pyramids were built
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Thanks, Zentar.
I read befor that a main difference is the magnet material. Unfortunately, I cannot make measurements on the magnet to distinguish A2/A5 and I not willing yet to peel of the masking tape (is that the name?) from the wire. I hope that there are some visual or easy to determine differences that changed over time as thickness, length or width of something (bobbins, magnets, pole pieces,...), PU weight, tool marks, round/oval/square mounting holes, pole piece spacing, color of something and so on.
I searched a lot but I couldn’t find anything. I can’t believe that the were no visible differences in production within 20 years from the mid 40s to the mid 60s. I bet, that there are at least ten specialists with a Ph. D. thesis in development history in Gibson dog ear P90s in the mid 20th century. Where are you?
I read befor that a main difference is the magnet material. Unfortunately, I cannot make measurements on the magnet to distinguish A2/A5 and I not willing yet to peel of the masking tape (is that the name?) from the wire. I hope that there are some visual or easy to determine differences that changed over time as thickness, length or width of something (bobbins, magnets, pole pieces,...), PU weight, tool marks, round/oval/square mounting holes, pole piece spacing, color of something and so on.
I searched a lot but I couldn’t find anything. I can’t believe that the were no visible differences in production within 20 years from the mid 40s to the mid 60s. I bet, that there are at least ten specialists with a Ph. D. thesis in development history in Gibson dog ear P90s in the mid 20th century. Where are you?
Yes I also found that info on the old P90s is sparce.
There was no linear design. It was probably blind luck that led to the great pickups Gibson made. We're probably lucky we didn't end up with junk unwanted P90s.
For example look at the current Epiphone P90s made by Gotoh in the Orient. They use 44awg wire and ohm out at 12ko.
Then look at the Kalamazoo made P90s with 42awg wire that ohm out at 8ko.
When Kalamazoo ran out of formvar they used enamel coated. They probably said to each other that they're out of brown wire so use the blue wire. When they ran out of A2 and A5 they'd grab A3 off the shelf.
There was no linear design. It was probably blind luck that led to the great pickups Gibson made. We're probably lucky we didn't end up with junk unwanted P90s.
For example look at the current Epiphone P90s made by Gotoh in the Orient. They use 44awg wire and ohm out at 12ko.
Then look at the Kalamazoo made P90s with 42awg wire that ohm out at 8ko.
When Kalamazoo ran out of formvar they used enamel coated. They probably said to each other that they're out of brown wire so use the blue wire. When they ran out of A2 and A5 they'd grab A3 off the shelf.
I bet there NO phd experts in gibson production in the 50s and 60s. It was a small company that didnt have computers and had no idea that anyone would care about wire and magnets 60 years later. The only people that knew these secrets have died and took the knowledge with them.
mdubya
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IMHO, since P-90's have twice as many magnets as humbuckers, they are NOT underpowered, no matter what the magnet.
Let Jon from Throbak or James from Rewind answer the difference between 50's and 60's, they know.
I believe the hookup wires are different and I believe the coil wire is different as well.
Other than the baseplate itself, dogear, soap bar, and pickguard mounted are the same pickups, bobbin and coil wise.
Let Jon from Throbak or James from Rewind answer the difference between 50's and 60's, they know.
I believe the hookup wires are different and I believe the coil wire is different as well.
Other than the baseplate itself, dogear, soap bar, and pickguard mounted are the same pickups, bobbin and coil wise.
fernieite
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Here's another good thread on old P-90's...
https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?127840-Vintage-P90-Identification
https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?127840-Vintage-P90-Identification
TM1
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Bobbin wires should both be Black on `50's and there's a rubber grommet on the base plate that should be either tan or black(on later ones). the base plates are Tin plated brass with dimples on them to hold the magnets in place. I've noticed that by the end of the `50's the grommets are gone and the black and white wires come out the sides.
hope this helps..
hope this helps..