Why don't I love my new Custom Buckers? Different than yours?

[trapland]

I've been playing my new 2013 lightly aged hand picked R9 a few hours a day for a week. I don't hate the Custom Buckers, but I don't love them either. I have 2 other LPs with BB1, 2 and 3 and I like both of them better.

When I played my new guitar in the store, I was able to compare it to 3 other historics (not handpicked aged) with CB pickups. They ALL were way brighter and louder than mine. I loved everything else about mine, and I assumed it was a pot value thing. It isn't.

To my ears, Burstbuckers are delicate, articulate and incredibly well balanced. My Custom Buckers seem to have this HUGE resonant peak around 400-700Hz. It's very ballsy, but like a bull in a china shop sort of way. It's pronounced on both pickups and it actually ruins the tone of both together. There is almost no tonal change on both as just the neck. I have tried every adjustment of pickup and pole piece height with only minor improvement.

I'm NOT saying the tone is bad, its all personal. I just think this particular pair don't suit me. I've already bought a pair of BurstBuckers, Im just trying to learn here. To give you an idea of what I'm hearing, this guys video is SPOT ON, especially on neck and both positions.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9CL1vBwfcY


Has anyone else noticed major differences between Custom Buckers? Could it be that because my R9 is a hand picked aged, it has a different pickup recipe? Any other thoughts why my CB may sound different than other CB?

 

[renderit]

I found the Custombuckers to be very consistent and lovely sounding. I now have 4 guitars with them. A late 2013 purchase and the rest are 2014's. While there has been differences in each guitar sound wise they were mostly similar, good harmonics, lots of power and good articulation. Some are more harmonic and some more articulate. The latest aquisition is much hotter on the bridge and the pickups seem to be brighter than my others. I don't like it more or less but enjoy the fact it is a biter and the others are moaners. So as much as it pains me to say it, I suppose some custombuckers come out different. For my purchases they have been relatively consistent, but definitely different. Just like the thing they are trying to emulate.

Mr. Duane will jump in, I am sure, and apparently he is right, there are some that even sound like poop. God that hurt. Just like the real ones.

Play with your poles and height a lot though. On some of mine a tiny change made tons of difference. And I have yet to find a bad one. If you decide to ditch yours I am sure there will be buyers and traders.

 

[trapland]

Thanks for that. I'd never say they sound bad. I also don't hate them, but I don't love them either. Had I never heard Burstbuckers,n these could be my new favorite.

I would never ditch the pickups, lol. But right now it probably the best time,value wise. I also have a pair of MHS that I dont love. Maybe its an Alnico 3 thing for me? I always heard CBs were brighter and cleaner than BB. Mine are not, but my MHS are.

 

[renderit]

That's kinda funny. The only Burstbuckers I have I hate. But in all fairness they were in a customshop 339 that I picked up new for nothing last year at GC. I figured at that price I could play a little. I have gone through DiMarzio's which I love in my Limited Edition 335 Lemonburst. They don't work in the 339. I had a set of Thrōbak MXV's in it which were great, but I wanted spectacular. I now have Thrōbak MC102B's ready to go in and a set of Wizz' Alnico4 to try.

In the original post you said you don't love them. Keep trying until you do, even if they need to be changed. These Historics from 13 and 14 are to good not to love.

 

[trapland]

That's kinda funny. The only Burstbuckers I have I hate. But in all fairness they were in a customshop 339 that I picked up new for nothing last year at GC. I figured at that price I could play a little. I have gone through DiMarzio's which I love in my Limited Edition 335 Lemonburst. They don't work in the 339. I had a set of Thrōbak MXV's in it which were great, but I wanted spectacular. I now have Thrōbak MC102B's ready to go in and a set of Wizz' Alnico4 to try.

In the original post you said you don't love them. Keep trying until you do, even if they need to be changed. These Historics from 13 and 14 are to good not to love.

Interesting. I also bought a custom shop 339 from GC. Mine came with 57 classics,very dark and muddy. I changed them to BB and loved it. Lol! But then I had to trade it for an ES-Les Paul. Wish I'd remembered to pull those pickups.


The guitar is a total keeper. Even if I never plugged it in again, I still love it.

 

[KennyY]

I have 2013 LP Historics that had the Custombuckers installed.
One sounded great, the other sounded like the volume got knocked down.
Tried swapping the pickups and it made one guitar sound not so hot the other sound OK.

 

[Soulweb]

I don't like Apple Pie. In fact I think it's gross. But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Apple Pie...

My point is that not everyone likes Custom Buckers. Especially if you're accustomed to, and like, Burstbuckers. I found burstbuckers to be shrill and biting. You would describe them as "delicate, intricate, and incredibly well balanced." I think we're both right. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder.

I would go so far as to say Burstbuckers and Custombuckers are apples and oranges apart from each other.

Luckily, pickups can be changed if that's all it is. You can also get pretty good money for Custombuckers.

 

[trapland]

I have 2013 LP Historics that had the Custombuckers installed.
One sounded great, the other sounded like the volume got knocked down.
Tried swapping the pickups and it made one guitar sound not so hot the other sound OK.

Can you clarify that? Swapped with another guitar? What pickups?

 

[renderit]

Interesting. I also bought a custom shop 339 from GC. Mine came with 57 classics,very dark and muddy. I changed them to BB and loved it. Lol! But then I had to trade it for an ES-Les Paul. Wish I'd remembered to pull those pickups.


The guitar is a total keeper. Even if I never plugged it in again, I still love it.

Whoops! I think you are right! They were (are, I still have them) 57 classics. Yeah, dark, muddy and very unspectacular in the 339. I think I'm tending to believe it's that guitar more than the pickups though. It just need the perfect match to make it sing. Or get thrown out and replaced with a 336.

 

[KennyY]

Can you clarify that? Swapped with another guitar? What pickups?

I've swapped the Custombuckers between the two 2013 historics. Both Historics had Custombuckers installed in the first place.

 

[Smolder]

For what I do, the Custombuckers are a tad hot, but not as hot or as muddy as the Burstbuckers they replaced (in a 2007 R8). I rarely put the volume knob above 6 as a result.

 

[trapland]

For what I do, the Custombuckers are a tad hot, but not as hot or as muddy as the Burstbuckers they replaced (in a 2007 R8). I rarely put the volume knob above 6 as a result.

So here we are. You say BB are muddy and hot. Soulweb says BB are shrill. Both compared to CBs. I think we can agree that muddy means less treble and shrill means more treble. We can leave the other adjectives alone for now. My point is, when comparing CB to BB, SOME of us find the CB to have much less treble (use your favorite adjective) while MOST find CB TO HAVE MORE TREBLE.

This has never been good or bad, only taste. I just expected CB to have more treble than BB as most people here describe. I found it to be the opposite. But a few others also hear less treble in CBs compared to BB. Again, I compared several Custom BUCKER equipped guitars ALL at the same time and found all of them to have lots of treble except this one, which has way less treble and gain.

I know these pickups are not Burstbuckers, 57 classics, 490/498 or patent numbers as I own all of those and these physically are very different. I really wonder if there are major differences from one set of Custom Buckers to the next? I know that's what I heard.

because of this, I can't say if I like Custom Buckers or not! The next set I get may be Grail like.

OR..... Is Gibson intentionally winding them different for different models? Can anyone confirm this? Or is radically different winds and tones how they are SUPPOSED to be?

 

[Soulweb]

Custombuckers are typically not as hot as Burstbuckers. "Underwound" is the tagline that gets a lot of traction when people describe them. What that means is entirely up to you and your own ears. It's crazy to think you'll get a definitive answer here. Especially considering your own findings seem to contradict the typical opinion of them.

If you're really just trying to learn about the Custombuckers there are quite a bit of threads dedicated to this very topic already with a voluminous amount of information. That's probably your best bet as the topic has been covered a few times already.

For what it's worth, there are more factors than just the pickups that can affect the sound. That same set of pickups in a different les paul, or even an old Ibanez lawsuit will sound entirely different. But that's a whole 'nother can of shyte right there.

 

[duaneflowers]

I have some CBs that I love... others not so much. I don't have any that I really hate though... I've just replaced some with sets that sound better to me. I would even replace them with another set of CBs if I found some that I like better. The ones in my Shanks sound awesome and it would take a really stellar set of pickups for me to contemplate a change there. I think it all comes down to consistency. Original PAFs were not manufactured with any consistency at all and many of those went on to forge the trail that was to become Rock & Roll... whether or not its Gibson's intention to duplicate that inconsistency is anyone's guess, the final result is that different winds appeal to different users. Its interesting that the 'new' Gibson website lists exact specs for many CB models... it will be interesting to see if those really are exact specs or just ballpark... :salude

 

[buckaroo]

To the OP: consider that it might be "the wood" that you don't like the sound of rather than the pickups.

 

[Smolder]

So here we are. You say BB are muddy and hot. Soulweb says BB are shrill. Both compared to CBs. I think we can agree that muddy means less treble and shrill means more treble. We can leave the other adjectives alone for now. My point is, when comparing CB to BB, SOME of us find the CB to have much less treble (use your favorite adjective) while MOST find CB TO HAVE MORE TREBLE.

This has never been good or bad, only taste. I just expected CB to have more treble than BB as most people here describe. I found it to be the opposite. But a few others also hear less treble in CBs compared to BB. Again, I compared several Custom BUCKER equipped guitars ALL at the same time and found all of them to have lots of treble except this one, which has way less treble and gain.

I know these pickups are not Burstbuckers, 57 classics, 490/498 or patent numbers as I own all of those and these physically are very different. I really wonder if there are major differences from one set of Custom Buckers to the next? I know that's what I heard.

because of this, I can't say if I like Custom Buckers or not! The next set I get may be Grail like.

OR..... Is Gibson intentionally winding them different for different models? Can anyone confirm this? Or is radically different winds and tones how they are SUPPOSED to be?

Sorry to be, unclear. I wouldn't apply muddy as a tonal range thing, more of a 'notes aren't very clear' sort of thing.

Both burstbuckers and custom buckers seem to measure about the same resistance... 8.0-8.5, plus or minus. The Gibson site states that there is a range of 5200-5590 winds... I'd guess that that is not only the variance, but the range between a neck and bridge pickup. There certainly could be some variation in the magnet's strength. I wouldn't be surprised if the same set of pickups sound different in two different guitars of the same model.

 

[duaneflowers]

I wouldn't be surprised if the same set of pickups sound different in two different guitars of the same model.

Indeed... all tonewoods respond to tone differently even within the same species. Wood from the top of the hill is much drier than wood from the bottom even though they come from the same hill. To carry this one step further... as wood ages, the tonal properties change as well. So the pickups that sound crappy in that guitar might sound great in 10 years (and vice versa) depending on the environment the wood aged in (as well as the original tonal properties of the wood). And since pickups merely amplify that sound distinct changes are possible. Ibelieve pickups change over the years as well, although since metal is less malleable than wood they tend to change more slowly. Caps also tend to drift up over the years, so there is another factor to consider in the long haul. I refer to these changes over time as gravity... and since quantum physics has proven that gravity plays by its own unfathomable rules, the outcome is never certain. So who's to say that Gibson's handling of the situation isn't actually ideal! :hmm

 

[trapland]

And heres another thought.... Gibson made a mistake? Wrong magnets? Or way overwound? Stranger things have happened. I once bought a Custom shop lp that speced as nickel hardware and it definately came with chrome grovers.

I thought about wood and i do believe it has a bearing on tone, but not this much. I changed all of thr pots from 440-470k to 535-555k (gibson historic spec, lol) and it brightened things up but still hot and middle bass heavy.

I have read many hours about Custom Buckers and find about wwhat i experienced, most find CB bright and clear while a credible few found SOME CB the opposite compared with Bustbuckers. Including the example on the video i mentioned above.

In the end i have to go with Duane.... i dont hate my CB, but I love BB more than THIS set. Better the devil you know?

Id love to hear any more about contrary Custom Buckers.

 

[renderit]

And heres another thought.... Gibson made a mistake? Wrong magnets? Or way overwound? Stranger things have happened. I once bought a Custom shop lp that speced as nickel hardware and it definately came with chrome grovers.

I thought about wood and i do believe it has a bearing on tone, but not this much. I changed all of thr pots from 440-470k to 535-555k (gibson historic spec, lol) and it brightened things up but still hot and middle bass heavy.

I have read many hours about Custom Buckers and find about wwhat i experienced, most find CB bright and clear while a credible few found SOME CB the opposite compared with Bustbuckers. Including the example on the video i mentioned above.

In the end i have to go with Duane.... i dont hate my CB, but I love BB more than THIS set. Better the devil you know?

Id love to hear any more about contrary Custom Buckers.

Or it could be as simple as they wind to a specific resistance but don't keep the temperature controlled in the winding room worth snot. A 5 degree change would be huge...

 

[trapland]

Or it could be as simple as they wind to a specific resistance but don't keep the temperature controlled in the winding room worth snot. A 5 degree change would be huge...

Is that like the butterfly effect? What if we we all just ants on some giants picnic table.....


im kidding, I know temps matter. There is a lot of great info in this thread, thank you everybody.

As one last note. I filled both holes in this R9 with BB2 and 3 and it sounds EXACTLY like I expect BB to sound, much like my other 2 BB equipped guitars. In my case, the wood was not the major factor, the pickups were.

and at lease my pair of CB were WAY hotter than a BB2-3 set. Way hotter and darker. So much that I couldn't effect enough changes by adjustment. I love this guitar now! I loved it before too. And I'll never sell the CBs as my tastes may very well change with time. (And returning to stock is good sometimes)