Reissue Specs: Hide Glue?

[Triburst]

Big Al and Buckaroo, etc. are correct: You just can't make big blanket statements saying THIS (insert your favorite tweak) makes ALL the difference. And saying that "hide glue" (and hide glue alone) makes all the difference is pretty tough to justify.

It reminds me of stories you hear of guys swapping out pickups -- Someone putting in some really nice new ones, but also putting in new 500K pots and PIO caps, then saying all the difference in tone is strictly due to the brand new pickups.

Even bursts vary, so why shouldn't Historics? Find the one YOU like! eace2

 

[Texas Blues]

Hide glue?

Truss rods?

Sheeit.

Onliest 'thang you'll hear is Gibson stackin' paper.

Cha Ching!

And good for them too!

 

[djangolad]

Who know if it's the glue that makes the difference. Probably not by itself but it's the way it was done in the golden era.
I guess as close to those specs as possible is more likely to achieve what a "Re-issue" is. Not to say that you'll ever hear a 50s tone from a 2000s historic no matter what glue they use until 2050 when time has had it's say.

 

[dbone15]

All things being equal only cork sniffers hear a difference.

 

[bbigsby]

Somewhat related, not related. I had Erik Hansen build me 5 tele's with the same spec, well one had a pine body, but other than that same wood, hardware and pickups. 2 Guitars sound similar and the other 3 sound very different to my ears. All guitars were made with nitro and hide glue. I even had two of the necks replaced with fatter necks and they came back sounding different.

That being said I sold my 2 replicas, 2003 R7, 2005 R8 and I am really happy with my 2014 R8. That being said my friends 2013 R9 sounds a little better than my 2014 R8.

 

[SkyPalermo]

the guitar was bright acoustically, but I heard more depth to the tone by resting my chin on the upper bout and strumming the strings. There was a slight difference between my chin on the mahogany and my chin on the maple top. There was also a difference between those two methods and just hearing it acoustically without any contact with my head. I should explain that I have conductive hearing loss and that putting my chin on the bout gives me a better picture of the true frequency response.

Here's the interesting part. Now, with the hide glue joint, I hear no difference between having my chin placed anywhere on the guitar and my head off the instrument.
Am I imagining things? I'll concede the possibility, but my brain hears this every time I play it and it gets better every day. So, I don't think I'm losing my mind ;-)

:rofl Cream Fan, I don't have anything to add to this subject and don't mean to offend you, but your post is hilarious!

 

[TM1]

I swore I wasn't going to jump in this one... But.. Here goes: Hide Glue has historically been used in building guitars and violin's for centuries.
The way it works is as the glue dries it pulls the two pieces together and as it dries it crystalizes and basically bonds the two pieces together. This allows the wood to vibrate as one piece.
Titebond as it dries forms a very strong bond between the two pieces but the drawback in a musical sense is that it leaves a layer/sheet of vinyl between the two pieces which impedes the transfer of vibrations between the two.
The transfer of vibrations between the two pieces of wood is not nearly as good with Titebond as it is with Hide Glue.
I do think that removing the rubber sheath from the Trussrod is a major step forward. The 1/4" steel rod can make a huge difference in transferring vibrations thru the neck.
I was at Warwick/Framus in Markneukirchen, Germany about 2-3 weeks back. They actually have channels routed in their necks to insert 1/4"x 1/4" x 12" steel rods about 1/4" outside of the Trussrod channel(on each side of the rod). That improves the vibration transfer and removes dead spots in their necks. It also increases the sustain characteristics of the neck wood.
PRS uses Epoxy to glue their fingerboards to the neck blank. It's a type of epoxy that dries very hard and is almost "glass-like" when dry. It acts very much like Hide Glue after it's cured. A long time ago I was close with Paul Smith and I asked him why he didn't use Titebond like Gibson and some others. He said to him it was stupid to spend months and months drying a piece of wood to use as a musical instrument to the right moisture levels only to put a water based glue on it and screw up the wood by re-introducing water to the wood. Now Hide Glue is water based as well but evaporates much quicker than a vinyl based glue ever will. Epoxy dries as a chemical reaction to the two components after being mixed.

 

[Tommy Tourbus]

/\ that's great and all, but then why doesn't every PRS sound noticeably better than every pre 2013 Historic?

 

[Cream Fan]

:rofl Cream Fan, I don't have anything to add to this subject and don't mean to offend you, but your post is hilarious!

My hearing loss is no joke, you putz.

 

[tdarian]

As long as the hide glue does not interfere with anything I'm cool with it.

 

[renderit]

My hearing loss is no joke, you putz.

I'm with you. I don't laugh at that either. Bone conductance works.

 

[Xpensive Wino]

All things being equal only cork sniffers hear a difference.

Should that be "glue sniffers"? :hmm

 

[BCR/Greg]

Folks....the amount of glue left after clamping is almost negligible.

There are bigger tone shifts due to the thickness and composition of the finish than the glue.

Then there is the quality of the wood........

Buy them for their qualities, not for the bullshit hype.

If anyone brags that they have a "hide glue" Reissue and that it's better than a non hide Reissue....then they are proving that they are not one to worry about.

 

[FenRx]

 

[SkyPalermo]

My hearing loss is no joke, you putz.

Sorry, just reread the quote. Somehow missed the bit about your hearing loss. Of course that isn't funny. Apologies.

 

[Cream Fan]

Sorry, just reread the quote. Somehow missed the bit about your hearing loss. Of course that isn't funny. Apologies.

I appreciate the apology, and no hard feelings. That said,I would still recommend you try playing the guitar acoustically with your chin on the wood. Even if you don't have hearing loss, you will be amazed at the sound of your guitar as it resonates inside your head. It's pretty cool.

 

[mithrandir]

The only way I'm putting my chin on a LP at Guitar Center is if I shoot it down with antibacterial spray first!

 

[singlecut 54]

Gibson have responded to customer demand and are using Hide glue for the neck joint on Reissue guitars. As BCR Greg stated, and provided the joint is a snug fit, then the amount of glue is minimal and probably has little effect on the sound of the guitar. Maybe it is a marketing ploy but Gibson have been criticised heavily in the past for not replicating their Golden Era guitars exactly, isn't this at least a small step nearer to meeting the demands of it's customers?

 

[ourmaninthenorth]

In a blind test, if I can't hear the difference, then what difference does it make?

I appreciate Singlecut's observation above, seems Gibson at times can't do right for doing wrong. However I think Big Al's comments nail it, if all these "details" aren't that important, and to me personally they aren't - not on the reissues,I save all my anality for my study of the Vintage guitars - then buy any of them cos they are "flippin" great guitars.

:salude

 

[dragonfire]

I've built countless guitars - some with titebond (in the olden days before we were awakened to the "new" old hide glue) and now I use hide glue.

Do I think it makes a difference - I'm not sure. . .

I do know that the glue dries very differently.

I also know that glue in and of itself is a very minor part of guitar construction.

There are so many things that go into making a guitar sound good that just having one parameter such as glue or a truss rod sheath is not going to make or break a build.

But I salute Gibson for finding something each year that makes folks want to buy the new models - that's simply good marketing.

I agree with the folks that say to play a bunch and find the one that YOU think sounds best to YOU!

That's YOUR guitar!!

I personally prefer the underwound pups so much over hot ones. . . but I play with another guitarist who loves overwound and has very hot pickups in his Les Paul. Who is right. . . . who cares??!

We both get the sound we like.