Expert Poll: Date This Black Beauty

[scottknouse]

Running a poll for the experts here....
Date this Gibson Les Paul Custom. (Hit the slideshow link provided.)
Pots are: CBA 811-1158 500K The research I've done on the internet tells me these are late '60's pots. (From that Vintage Guitar Guy @ that provide.net website.)
http://s671.photobucket.com/albums/vv75/scotteknouse/Gibson%20Black%20Beauty/?albumview=slideshow
Curious to hear any and all!

 

[Wilko]

... close to 1974.

400000 series serial is 1974 75
70s logo
sloppy cut pickup leg cavities are 74-75
flat-ish top carve
relector knobs (semi modified)
replacement bridge, tail and pickup (covers at least)
later would have serial decal

 

[scottknouse]

Serial number is not 400000 series.
Stamped serial number is 624336.

 

[Wilko]

I typed the wrong number. Either way, the freehand routs are not likely 70-72 (the other option for that number)
Can you get the date code from the pots? should start with 137

 

[325-at-2pm]

The wiring harness with pots could be 1969, but you can't go by that alone. I have a 1968 LPC and the pots are from mid-1961............ but the presence of my guitar's serial number in the range for a 1968, and the fact that the serial number is in Gibson's shipping record for the 3rd week of August 1968, corresponds perfectly to a 1968 LPC with my guitar's first batch construction features.

Since your guitar has a volute, USA, 600,000 series serial number, black reflector knobs, short to no tenon, I'd say it's a 1975. I'm sure the LPF guys will help you drill it down more and will correct me if it's a 1972 with changed knobs or something like that.......................:ha

It's a really beautiful guitar, any way you look at it. :salude

 

[scottknouse]

I typed the wrong number. Either way, the freehand routs are not likely 70-72 (the other option for that number)
Can you get the date code from the pots? should start with 137

Pot codes are CBA 811-1158.

This Custom is a crazy one, that's why I'm trying to pick everyone's brain.

 

[Wilko]

Looks pretty normal. Nothing odd about it but the mix of replacement parts. I gotta say it looks like a pretty nice 74-74 LPC. Real thick neck binding is also a mid 70s and later trait that takes it out the 70-72 possibility.

Gotta be more numbers on those pots. Move that wire over on that neck tone pot and get some light on it. There is a number that starts with 137, the two digits after that will be the year. (1377436) would be a '74 pot made in Sept.

 

[Tom Wittrock]

Pot codes are CBA 811-1158.

This Custom is a crazy one, that's why I'm trying to pick everyone's brain.

What's so crazy about it? :wah

How about the rest of the pot codes ... in particular, the part with the date code? :ganz

 

[scottknouse]

Obviously I'm no expert!
Regarding the POT CODES...
I'll poke around in the cavity some more to see if there might be more numbers available, but when researching the CBA codes, I found info at the link provided. I "assumed" this was it.
http://home.provide.net/~cfh/pots.html
(Very Bottom Of The Page)

 

[scottknouse]

Upon further review...
I was able to find some "legitimate" pot code numbers.
13771xx (Solder hiding last two)

 

[Triplet]

Consistent with a 70-73. With the pot codes reading a '71, I see no reason to think it's not. New bridge and stoptail, though. No biggie.

 

[scottknouse]

For restoration purposes, what am I to look for regarding the bridge and the stoptail? Also, are witch hat knobs correct do you think?
Thanks for your opinion, Scott

 

[Triplet]

You'd want the pointy witch hat for that.

 

[jimmyace2006]

The pot codes date to 1971. That is consistent with the placement of the hole in the control cavity that goes into the guitar to the pickups. Assuming those caps are original, it makes sense that those black caps would be there on a 1971 model since they switched over to different ones after 1972. There are a lot of changed parts on that guitar - except for the tuners (which are either period correct or reissues) and maybe the jack plate, it looks like all of the gold parts are replacements; it looks like the fret board was changed. The coloring on the binding does not match the coloring on the head, and the frets do not look right for that era.

Here are some pics of the control cavities over the years from 1968-1976 - notice how the caps changed and how the placement of the routing hole to the pickups moved:

1968

1969

1970

1971

1972

1973

1974

1975

1976

 

[jimmyace2006]

Either way, the freehand routs are not likely 70-72 (the other option for that number)

I am not sure what you mean here. That cavity looks identical to several 1971-72 LP Customs I have owned.

 

[jimmyace2006]

For restoration purposes, what am I to look for regarding the bridge and the stoptail? Also, are witch hat knobs correct do you think?
Thanks for your opinion, Scott

You want the Gibson patent number bridge (looks like your ABR-1), but not the one with the foundry mark. The one with the foundry mark would not be unheard of for this model year, but it was mostly phased out by 71-72. You want the light weight (feather weight) stop tail piece. You want witch hat knobs with gold tops.

 

[Triplet]

it looks like the fret board was changed. The coloring on the binding does not match the coloring on the head, and the frets do not look right for that era.

It does look like a modern board. A lot of effort for a player.

 

[scottknouse]

Great stuff guys, keep 'em coming.
Any sure fire way to tell if the board has been replaced?

 

[jimmyace2006]

Great stuff guys, keep 'em coming.
Any sure fire way to tell if the board has been replaced?

normally there would be some finish that was chipped away along the side; but if the neck has been refinished, that could be colvered up. have you black lighted it?

 

[Wilko]

With a replaced fretboard/binding and refret, yeah I don't see anything that would not make it 71-72 guitar. You have the cool sprague caps too.

I'd only seen the freehand routs on later guitars and have sold all of mine so I can't post pics.