Did I buy a fake Gibson LP? 1989 Gibson LP Studio Red Wine Glossy

[johnnymustang5]

Hello all,
So I have bought my first Gibson and I am really excited as I have found a 1989 Gibson LP Studio. However after doing more extensive research I am starting to get nervous that I bought a fake. Please see pictures attached to the link at the bottom of the page and let me know if I need to track down the seller and personally B-slap him and demand a refund. hahah I'm kidding of course about the B-slap but would seek a refund from the personal seller.

My concerns are as follows...

***Maple top width on the cut-out isn't consistent with the rest of the "maple top" on the sides and bottom of guitar. In the cut-out the thickness is not the same.

***Maple top isn't visible in the pickup bays.

Neck (closest to the fret board) pickup bay says WR inside.

***the "Made in USA" is not stamped in the same fashion as the serial number. It's almost like it was lightly embossed in the nitro-cellulose. It doesn't appear to be stamped, maybe it is ever-so slightly, into the wood.

The poker chip script looks messy. Especially the "M" in Rhythm.

***Gibson logo seems flawed. The dot in the "I" is almost touching the "G" in GIBSON logo

***Neck to headstock angle seems shallow.

The last digit in the serial number is somewhat covered at the bottom of the "5" by a tuner.

***Tune-O-matic Bridge, stop-bar tailpiece, and other "chrome finish" seem in great shape for a 1989 with VERY minimal pitting.

The fret tang is visible on the side of the fret board. Plus some of the fret tags have red on them. Regardless the binding doesn't go over the fret tang or crown. Maybe this has been refretted?

Not sure if the serial number is in the correct font or size. I have covered over the last 3 digits of the serial number because I have noticed other people doing the same. Not sure why but I assume that isn't essential. I have looked it up on Guitar Dater Project Org. and it say's it was made in Nashville Plant in 89. The serial number is 8 digits long.

I really hope I'm just being paranoid and that I have found a great guitar. If there is a picture I have missed then please ask and I'll post.

Thanks to everyone for the great forum and helpful information here.

Link to my pictures
https://www.flickr.com/photos/130366734@N03/sets/72157650643713671/

 

[Tom Wittrock]

Hello all,
So I have bought my first Gibson and I am really excited as I have found a 1989 Gibson LP Studio. However after doing more extensive research I am starting to get nervous that I bought a fake. Please see pictures attached to the link at the bottom of the page and let me know if I need to track down the seller and personally B-slap him and demand a refund. hahah I'm kidding of course about the B-slap but would seek a refund from the personal seller.

My concerns are as follows...

***Maple top width on the cut-out isn't consistent with the rest of the "maple top" on the sides and bottom of guitar. In the cut-out the thickness is not the same.

***Maple top isn't visible in the pickup bays.

Neck (closest to the fret board) pickup bay says WR inside.

***the "Made in USA" is not stamped in the same fashion as the serial number. It's almost like it was lightly embossed in the nitro-cellulose. It doesn't appear to be stamped, maybe it is ever-so slightly, into the wood.

The poker chip script looks messy. Especially the "M" in Rhythm.

***Gibson logo seems flawed. The dot in the "I" is almost touching the "G" in GIBSON logo

***Neck to headstock angle seems shallow.

The last digit in the serial number is somewhat covered at the bottom of the "5" by a tuner.

***Tune-O-matic Bridge, stop-bar tailpiece, and other "chrome finish" seem in great shape for a 1989 with VERY minimal pitting.

The fret tang is visible on the side of the fret board. Plus some of the fret tags have red on them. Regardless the binding doesn't go over the fret tang or crown. Maybe this has been refretted?

Not sure if the serial number is in the correct font or size. I have covered over the last 3 digits of the serial number because I have noticed other people doing the same. Not sure why but I assume that isn't essential. I have looked it up on Guitar Dater Project Org. and it say's it was made in Nashville Plant in 89. The serial number is 8 digits long.

I really hope I'm just being paranoid and that I have found a great guitar. If there is a picture I have missed then please ask and I'll post.

Thanks to everyone for the great forum and helpful information here.

Link to my pictures
https://www.flickr.com/photos/130366734@N03/sets/72157650643713671/

Looks right to me. The maple in the pup cavities shows clearly on my monitor.
The WR is for wine red, the color.
For peace of mind, call Gibson Customer Service and give them the serial number.

 

[johnnymustang5]

Looks right to me. The maple in the pup cavities shows clearly on my monitor.
The WR is for wine red, the color.
For peace of mind, call Gibson Customer Service and give them the serial number.

Ok so I guess the maple is much thinner near the pup cavities? Cause it appears to be 1/4 inch on the side where the binding would be if it had binding.

 

[andy k]

I agree, looks good to me, the maple at the pup cavity is about half inch thick, carved away at the outer edge of the body. I think you got an ebony fretboard and the red you see on the fret ends is red laquer from the finish.
studios of this era were meant as cheaper options, so sometimes there are slight defects, which still got through QC, but structuarly they are great guitars, not sure what the pickups are though? have only seen that kind of thing on a couple of fender humbuckers and some bill lawrence i had.
ive had a couple of later studios where the laquer in the headstock checked like crazy, so the specs do change from year to year.
nice score
andy k

 

[latestarter]

This is real. Great colour.

 

[johnnymustang5]

I agree, looks good to me, the maple at the pup cavity is about half inch thick, carved away at the outer edge of the body. I think you got an ebony fretboard and the red you see on the fret ends is red laquer from the finish.
studios of this era were meant as cheaper options, so sometimes there are slight defects, which still got through QC, but structuarly they are great guitars, not sure what the pickups are though? have only seen that kind of thing on a couple of fender humbuckers and some bill lawrence i had.
ive had a couple of later studios where the laquer in the headstock checked like crazy, so the specs do change from year to year.
nice score
andy k

Oh I see. So the maple is actually a lot thicker than I had thought in the pup cavity. Thanks for the reply. The guitar sounds amazing and feels pretty solid. And I shouldn't worry about the dot for the "I" in Gibson merging into the "G"? https://flic.kr/p/qLUa5n

I will try giving Gibson a call and running the serial number by them. I just don't know how much detail they will be able to provide.
Man reading about the fakes has really got me questioning how real the fakes actually look. damn internet overhyping !

 

[johnnymustang5]

The main thing that scares me is the Made in USA stamp. You can see it in one of the close up pictures. Is it normal for the stamp to not penetrate the wood? See picture and zoom in. You can zoom in on my link to the album.

https://flic.kr/p/qLXBaa

 

[DMartini]

genuine Gibson, that looks the same as a mate of mines one, except his is cack handed and has gold h/w :hee

 

[Progrocker111]

Its regular Studio with Lawrence circuit pickups (meh).

Gibson has some flaws like you mentioned even on much more expensive models. Nice color btw.

 

[johnnymustang5]

Thanks to everyone who is responding. I feel much better now. The color is great and the guitar sounds amazing. I can sleep better now. Thanks to everyone.

 

[johnnymustang5]

So now the question is what do you all think it is worth? There are a few marks in the finush and has one nail head sized chunk where it was potentially dropped or bumped up against something. Otherwise it's flawless.

 

[Marcel M]

The main thing that scares me is the Made in USA stamp. You can see it in one of the close up pictures. Is it normal for the stamp to not penetrate the wood? See picture and zoom in. You can zoom in on my link to the album.

https://flic.kr/p/qLXBaa

This is normal, I have Gibsons from the 80s where it looks exactly like this.

 

[Tom Wittrock]

So now the question is what do you all think it is worth? There are a few marks in the finush and has one nail head sized chunk where it was potentially dropped or bumped up against something. Otherwise it's flawless.

These sell for about $500 to $1000 depending on where you are, how few used LPs are available and how many people are actively buying.

 

[DMartini]

that's a great answer Tom, sounds like sound advice coming from someone who has moved more than a few guitars over his many years :salude

 

[johnnymustang5]

These sell for about $500 to $1000 depending on where you are, how few used LPs are available and how many people are actively buying.

Great so it seems like I got a good deal then. I paid the lower end of that estimate. Can anyone confirm if my fretboard is ebony? And are the dot inlays actually Ivory? Also can you guys tell if it is a wider or narrow neck?

 

[Marcel M]

Great so it seems like I got a good deal then. I paid the lower end of that estimate. Can anyone confirm if my fretboard is ebony? And are the dot inlays actually Ivory? Also can you guys tell if it is a wider or narrow neck?

I would say that is definitely ebony from the look of it. And, no.... there is no elephant tusk on your guitar. Only mother of terlit seat :hank

 

[johnnymustang5]

I would say that is definitely ebony from the look of it. And, no.... there is no elephant tusk on your guitar. Only mother of terlit seat :hank

Hahah ok good. I didn't want the unfortunate animal that lost it's life for my guitar haunting me at night.

 

[AliGZero]

I have an '89 that's nearly identical except for color (mine's ebony). Your pickups are the unmistakeable sign that the guitar is legit. The Bill Lawrence "Original" humbuckers (HBR-1 neck and HBL-1 bridge), also known as circuit board pickups for obvious reasons, were yet another attempt by Gibson to replicate the PAF sound. They were installed in virtually all of the '88-89 Les Paul models, including the Standards. Some dis them, but my guitar sounds fat and warm with good top end. The shallow "Made in USA" stamp is just like mine and probably the result of either a light stamp or a heavy coat of nitrocellulose lacquer. Your fretboard is definitely ebony, not black binding as you appear to have suspected. While Gibson did economize in building the early Studios (dot inlays, three-piece tops, maple necks, no binding, slightly thinner body), by the time Henry and the boys took over, they really tried to up their game. Real Mother of Pearl inlays (not the MOT that a previous reply claimed), beautiful ebony fretboards and mahogany necks were added by '89, along with the revised "California Girl" case with tan Tolex and pink lining and shroud. As a consequence of these improvements and some superb workmanship in this period, the '89-94 Studios (ebony fretboards on Studios were discontinued around '94 except for the White guitars) are considered some of the best ever made. Good luck with your find, and please resist any suggestions of changing out the pickups. Bill Lawrence has passed on, but the circuit board pickups were one of his early market successes and a pretty cool design, IMO.

 

[johnnymustang5]

I have an '89 that's nearly identical except for color (mine's ebony). Your pickups are the unmistakeable sign that the guitar is legit. The Bill Lawrence "Original" humbuckers (HBR-1 neck and HBL-1 bridge), also known as circuit board pickups for obvious reasons, were yet another attempt by Gibson to replicate the PAF sound. They were installed in virtually all of the '88-89 Les Paul models, including the Standards. Some dis them, but my guitar sounds fat and warm with good top end. The shallow "Made in USA" stamp is just like mine and probably the result of either a light stamp or a heavy coat of nitrocellulose lacquer. Your fretboard is definitely ebony, not black binding as you appear to have suspected. While Gibson did economize in building the early Studios (dot inlays, three-piece tops, maple necks, no binding, slightly thinner body), by the time Henry and the boys took over, they really tried to up their game. Real Mother of Pearl inlays (not the MOT that a previous reply claimed), beautiful ebony fretboards and mahogany necks were added by '89, along with the revised "California Girl" case with tan Tolex and pink lining and shroud. As a consequence of these improvements and some superb workmanship in this period, the '89-94 Studios (ebony fretboards on Studios were discontinued around '94 except for the White guitars) are considered some of the best ever made. Good luck with your find, and please resist any suggestions of changing out the pickups. Bill Lawrence has passed on, but the circuit board pickups were one of his early market successes and a pretty cool design, IMO.

Thanks for the informative post. eace2
The pickups to me sound great and I don't think I would alter the guitar. I do see that people are pretty divided on the subject but in my opinion the guitar sounds great as is so I won't be changing them. I did though, when I was thinking it might be fake, think perhaps the guy swapped them out on a fake guitar. You can read so much about actual fakes and compare pictures to the point you start to nitpick the guitar to death and convince yourself it could be fake. Especially someone like me who has only played a few LPs and never owned one. On the contrary there isn't much information or credible pictures out there for the potential buyer to compare the one they might buy.

The fact that the made in USA is normal for other guitars makes me feel much better. That was my main issue for thinking it might be fake. It's so much different than the serial number on my guitar or any I've seen on the internet.
So you are telling me it is real MOP? I thought MOP was a hard material to work with. It is a shell. I don't know why I was thinking ebony. Doh.. I think I was thinking ebony fretboard and the song ebony and ivory. lol Maybe that is where things got mixed up.


A little backstory on the guitar for anyone interested.

The guy I bought it from was the second owner. He says the first owner bought it new in high school, played it a few times, then put it to rest (strings loosened) in his closet til about 2012ish. That is when the second buyer got it set up, played it some, then sold to me. It was a craigslist purchase from a guy who collects guitars (owns around 100) and sells them occasionally.
He said he use to be a guitar tech and did the set up himself. It had high action so he tweaked the truss rod and now has very low action.
The only flaw now is the fact that the strings buzz with the light gauge strings. I'll probably take it to the local Luthier and see if they can get the buzzing to go away.

Point of the story though is its my first LP, didn't know much about them, found one on craigslist that had only been posted for a few days, researched quickly, bought on a chance and all the knowledge I have as a musician, and ended up with an awesome guitar. I wanted an older guitar and found that the late 80's were a great time for Gibson. Plus getting a studio is nice for me because I want to play it...like all the time. I would love a vintage or maybe an lp with Ocean Blue with flametop but the fact is I like to take guitars out, play them, and not have to worry about dropping it, nephews getting it dirty, not to mention the VERY HIGH price tag for those higher end axes. Plus I think...and just my opinion...an '89 studio, 50-60ish years from now when I'm on my deathbed, will be worth more than a 2015 with a Min-ETune. :##

 

[Jim W]

genuine Gibson, that looks the same as a mate of mines one, except his is cack handed and has gold h/w :hee

cack handed; hahahaha!

I prefer the term clootie-fisted.