Black is beautiful!!!

[apossibleworld]

I think they were using up left over Epi parts.

That was what I had thought at first, but now I'm wondering if Gibson actually manufactured these as an attempt to replace some of their other high end tuners (like Grover Imperials that otherwise went on the Emperors). When you look at the tuners up close, it doesn't appear that Gibson simply stamped a single line into the back of the tuner to change the E to a G.

I remember reading someplace about a tuner shortage in the late 50s, about Gibson having a hard time meeting the demand, with their suppliers. Does anyone know where I might have read this?

Here they are on my 1959 Emperor

 

[JJ Blair]

Black Beauties sure are cool looking, but ANY maple topped paf'd Goldtop or Burst eats them for breakfast....if you want nasal, get a mahogony topped paf'd Goldtop or LPC........

Couldn't agree less. My guitar is anything but nasal, and downright kicks the crap out if a couple bursts I'm familiar with.

BTW, I am after playing more and more maple tops against my Beauty, I am reaching the conclusion that the pickups are playing a much bigger role than the maple top.

I have some time today. Maybe I'll make a little video, and everybody can tell me how nasal this guitar is.

 

[rockinlespaul]

Black Beauties sure are cool looking, but ANY maple topped paf'd Goldtop or Burst eats them for breakfast....if you want nasal, get a mahogony topped paf'd Goldtop or LPC........

I disagree. All my all hog lesters were anything but nasal. The nasal ones were the lightweight bursts and one GT.

 

[585960]

well, gee golly whiz.............we all have such different opinions.......thats cool........I have just the opposite..........cool!!

 

[Tom Wittrock]

That was what I had thought at first, but now I'm wondering if Gibson actually manufactured these as an attempt to replace some of their other high end tuners (like Grover Imperials that otherwise went on the Emperors). When you look at the tuners up close, it doesn't appear that Gibson simply stamped a single line into the back of the tuner to change the E to a G.

I remember reading someplace about a tuner shortage in the late 50s, about Gibson having a hard time meeting the demand, with their suppliers. Does anyone know where I might have read this?

I have never heard of Gibson ever making tuning keys. I doubt Epiphone made those originally. I would bet they were ordered from another manufacturer.

As for a shortage of keys, I have never heard that, nor have I seen any evidence of this. Kluson usage seems to have been very steady. :hmm

 

[apossibleworld]

Sorry I mis-spoke, er, typed. Nobody seems to know who built the original E keys for Epiphone, and the same people clearly made these G keys. The question is whether they were leftover stock from pre-1957, or if Gibson contracted them to make new ones in '58 and '59, when they show up. TW - I can tell you are skeptical of what I'm getting at, but the fact that I've now seen several Gibsons (not to mention the Epiphones) with these G tuners means that there's a part to this story that still needs to be unraveled. If anybody cares

 

[JJ Blair]

I disagree. All my all hog lesters were anything but nasal. The nasal ones were the lightweight bursts and one GT.

Rockin, you and I can be founding members of the LPF Black Caucus.

 

[Tom Wittrock]

Sorry I mis-spoke, er, typed. Nobody seems to know who built the original E keys for Epiphone, and the same people clearly made these G keys. The question is whether they were leftover stock from pre-1957, or if Gibson contracted them to make new ones in '58 and '59, when they show up. TW - I can tell you are skeptical of what I'm getting at, but the fact that I've now seen several Gibsons (not to mention the Epiphones) with these G tuners means that there's a part to this story that still needs to be unraveled. If anybody cares

My thoughts were that they altered them at Gibson, after aquiring then as "hardware" when they bought Epiphone.
In your photo it does not look like it was altered from an E to a G, so perhaps the maker [Grover, Kluson, someone else] had the die and altered it to make these sets. :hmm

 

[apossibleworld]

I know it's just a tiny piece of a big story, but aren't these the details that keep us up at night?!

 

[Tom Wittrock]

I know it's just a tiny piece of a big story, but aren't these the details that keep us up at night?!

I no longer lose sleep over it. :ganz

But I enjoy trying to figure out how things like this came about. :salude

 

[Black58]

Every time I see this thread title I want to post my favorite black Les Paul:

:salude

Well, that works out perfectly 'cause every time I see this thread title,
I want to stare at your favorite black Les Paul! :biggrin: :yah

 

[585960]

Well, that works out perfectly 'cause every time I see this thread title,
I want to stare at your favorite black Les Paul! :biggrin: :yah

thats a Les Paul too that I would imagine (sssssshhh) eat a LPC or two....

 

[JJ Blair]

 

[585960]

ha ha ha ha right on!!! ha ha ha ha

 

[wooderson]

Personally, I prefer the three-pickup and alnico Customs to Goldtops, and I prefer Goldtops to Bursts. I am not sure whether I like three-pickup or alnico Customs better.

Opposite of the LPF hierarchy, as if I care.

 

[Black58]

Opposite of the LPF hierarchy, as if I care.

Obviously, you must, to a certain degree,
in order to make a statement like this. :ganz

 

[wooderson]

Not really, just noting a fact.

 

[Black58]

:hee Yeah, well ..

 

[JJ Blair]

While I was doing some guitar shootouts yesterday, I decided to take the six loose PAFS I had sitting around, and try them all on the same guitar, in the bridge position.

I'll just say that I might as well have been playing 6 different guitars, and even just adjusting the screw poles, and magnet height, made for endless variations. They all made the guitar sound brighter, darker, thinner, fatter, honkier, smoother ... there was a shitload of variation.

I'm even more of the opinion that the pickups are way more important to what we are hearing on LPs, than the top, or the fretboard material, in terms of the frequency balance. And I'm sure it's not just the resistance, but the ratio between the two windings, the scatter pattern of the wire, and the properties of the magnet.

I'm likening it to a microphone. There are many factors that contribute to the sound of a mic, from the acoustics of the body, the grill, the electronics, the transformer, etc. But the biggest factor in determining the frequency signature of a mic is the capsule. That's the part that acts as a transducer, and converts the physical movement into electrical current, much like an electric guitar.

I'm not saying that a Les Paul should sound like an SG, with the same, pickups, or what not. But I am saying that if you are comparing two guitars vintage Pauls, and you are not willing to swap the pickups, you can't for sure say it's the tops making the difference in sound.

YMMV.

 

[j45]

While I was doing some guitar shootouts yesterday, I decided to take the six loose PAFS I had sitting around, and try them all on the same guitar, in the bridge position.

I'll just say that I might as well have been playing 6 different guitars, and even just adjusting the screw poles, and magnet height, made for endless variations. They all made the guitar sound brighter, darker, thinner, fatter, honkier, smoother ... there was a shitload of variation.

I'm even more of the opinion that the pickups are way more important to what we are hearing on LPs, than the top, or the fretboard material, in terms of the frequency balance. And I'm sure it's not just the resistance, but the ratio between the two windings, the scatter pattern of the wire, and the properties of the magnet.

I'm likening it to a microphone. There are many factors that contribute to the sound of a mic, from the acoustics of the body, the grill, the electronics, the transformer, etc. But the biggest factor in determining the frequency signature of a mic is the capsule. That's the part that acts as a transducer, and converts the physical movement into electrical current, much like an electric guitar.

I'm not saying that a Les Paul should sound like an SG, with the same, pickups, or what not. But I am saying that if you are comparing two guitars vintage Pauls, and you are not willing to swap the pickups, you can't for sure say it's the tops making the difference in sound.

YMMV.

You obviously have lots of experience and know what you are doing. Just for fun, take one of the better sounding PAF's if you think there is one... maybe one with the strongest character of voice, then drop it in maybe a PRS, then an import Tele clone or others like that. You will many times end up with the worst sounding pickup you could imagine..... yet something like a DiMarzio will sound somewhat decent AND similar in all. PAF's are not always such a great pickup, in some cases just about the worst yet they are able to reproduce something in certain guitars with favorable resonance that no other pickup can.