Kevin James
Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2010
- Messages
- 495
Hey everyone. It's been a long time since I've been on this site, but it's nice to be back. I'm looking for some information on the Patent Number pickups and figured this would definitely be the place to get the best info.
What I'm specifically interested in is what year approximately the different changes happened, how the changes effected the sound, and what the current going rates are for the different versions.
I'd like to know the following:
1. When the coil wire changed from the purple enamel coated wire to the orange poly coated wire.
2. When they changed from two black leads to one black lead and one white lead.
3. When they changed from a random number of turns to a more uniform number of turns on the bobbin wire.
3. When the bobbins changed to the T-Top style. I've heard some say this happened in late 65, and others say no, it was later, closer to 67. Not sure which is accurate.
3. What is the perceived difference in sound between the purple wire PAF/Patent Number and the later orange wire version (Pre-T).
4. What is a fair price for a purple wire patent number and also for the orange wire version (Pre-T of course). Also to be clear I would not expect covers to be included.
The reason I'm asking for this info is I have this old battle axe LP/SG from 1961 I would really love to drop an original set of purple wire Patent Numbers in, but I want to really understand the changes from year to year and the current market pricing before I make any purchases.
Back story on the guitar: I've had it since 2011, and it's been posted on this site a few times but many years ago. The bad news is she suffered a neck break and a headstock break well before I got her, however the repairs are very solid and she feels, plays, and sounds great with an amazing natural resonance. As a result of the breaks/repairs someone pulled the original PAF's, and tuners, and the ABR bridge is slightly later as it is the retainer wire version from somewhere between 63 to early 65 in nickel not chrome, but with metal saddles not the nylon that was most common in those years. It also appears at some point the sidepull trem was removed and a long tail Bigsby was installed, then the original sidepull was later re-installed. The good news is the original harness is still intact with pots that date to either late 1960 or early 1961 (it's been years since I inspected that and I can't remember specifics from that long ago, just that they were all either late 60 or very early 61), and all of the plastic parts are original. She also just happens to have some really cool mojo that one of those new fangled Murphy Lab Heavy Aged guitars would kill to emulate, but could never hold a candle too. She was definitely someone's main gigging guitar for decades and was as they say "rode hard and put away wet". I just wish she could tell me her story. The guitar actually had no pickups at all when I purchased her, and now she has a set of Duncan Antiquities.
To be clear, I also fully understand putting early Patent Number pickups in it is never going to restore the value of the guitar, and that is not my reason for wanting them. Frankly that's a moot point as I never intend to part with her. She just sounds and feels too good in the hand, and I feel like she deserves a proper pair of pickups. I really want the purple wire version as I'm fearful the orange wire version is going to sound more like a T-Top than a PAF, and I would love it if they sounded like the PAF's that are in my 62 Ebony Block which sound amazing. The Patent Numbers in my 64 spec early 65 also sound great, but the 62 PAF's just sound a tiny little bit better. As the covers have never been off on the early 65's pickups, I'm not really sure if they are still the purple wire or the orange wire, which is also a reason for my questions above.
Any help with info on the early Patent Number pickups would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
And now for some pron: Here is the 1961 LP/SG
And here she is with her sisters, my minty 1962 LP/SG Ebony Block and very early 1965 (all 64 spec)
And a pic of my mid/late 65 for good measure
What I'm specifically interested in is what year approximately the different changes happened, how the changes effected the sound, and what the current going rates are for the different versions.
I'd like to know the following:
1. When the coil wire changed from the purple enamel coated wire to the orange poly coated wire.
2. When they changed from two black leads to one black lead and one white lead.
3. When they changed from a random number of turns to a more uniform number of turns on the bobbin wire.
3. When the bobbins changed to the T-Top style. I've heard some say this happened in late 65, and others say no, it was later, closer to 67. Not sure which is accurate.
3. What is the perceived difference in sound between the purple wire PAF/Patent Number and the later orange wire version (Pre-T).
4. What is a fair price for a purple wire patent number and also for the orange wire version (Pre-T of course). Also to be clear I would not expect covers to be included.
The reason I'm asking for this info is I have this old battle axe LP/SG from 1961 I would really love to drop an original set of purple wire Patent Numbers in, but I want to really understand the changes from year to year and the current market pricing before I make any purchases.
Back story on the guitar: I've had it since 2011, and it's been posted on this site a few times but many years ago. The bad news is she suffered a neck break and a headstock break well before I got her, however the repairs are very solid and she feels, plays, and sounds great with an amazing natural resonance. As a result of the breaks/repairs someone pulled the original PAF's, and tuners, and the ABR bridge is slightly later as it is the retainer wire version from somewhere between 63 to early 65 in nickel not chrome, but with metal saddles not the nylon that was most common in those years. It also appears at some point the sidepull trem was removed and a long tail Bigsby was installed, then the original sidepull was later re-installed. The good news is the original harness is still intact with pots that date to either late 1960 or early 1961 (it's been years since I inspected that and I can't remember specifics from that long ago, just that they were all either late 60 or very early 61), and all of the plastic parts are original. She also just happens to have some really cool mojo that one of those new fangled Murphy Lab Heavy Aged guitars would kill to emulate, but could never hold a candle too. She was definitely someone's main gigging guitar for decades and was as they say "rode hard and put away wet". I just wish she could tell me her story. The guitar actually had no pickups at all when I purchased her, and now she has a set of Duncan Antiquities.
To be clear, I also fully understand putting early Patent Number pickups in it is never going to restore the value of the guitar, and that is not my reason for wanting them. Frankly that's a moot point as I never intend to part with her. She just sounds and feels too good in the hand, and I feel like she deserves a proper pair of pickups. I really want the purple wire version as I'm fearful the orange wire version is going to sound more like a T-Top than a PAF, and I would love it if they sounded like the PAF's that are in my 62 Ebony Block which sound amazing. The Patent Numbers in my 64 spec early 65 also sound great, but the 62 PAF's just sound a tiny little bit better. As the covers have never been off on the early 65's pickups, I'm not really sure if they are still the purple wire or the orange wire, which is also a reason for my questions above.
Any help with info on the early Patent Number pickups would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
And now for some pron: Here is the 1961 LP/SG
And here she is with her sisters, my minty 1962 LP/SG Ebony Block and very early 1965 (all 64 spec)
And a pic of my mid/late 65 for good measure
