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I'm betting my '19 R8 started life as a '20 R9.

J.D.

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I haven't seen an explanation, but I'd guess the ABR-1 collapsed, lost a saddle, the studs bent, ABR-1 holes ovaled out, etc. He probably needed a quick repair to continue to play it. At one time these were just "used guitars".
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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CS will "repurpose" guitars for a couple of reasons.

1. Guitar just didn't meet visual requirements. Might be color, figure, damage during construction, etc.
2. Unsold. They simply made more than the demand and have to do "something" with them.
3. Holdbacks. CS typically builds a couple extra of every limited run in case of shipping damage or warranty claims. After a certain amount of time they need to do "something" with them.
I will also add M2M in the mix if the customer does not like the finished product good reputable authorized and authentic shops will offer the customer the choice of returning for a more suitable M2M . Thus there will be a redo of the serial # and certificate and such . So this is where the re sanding would take place in this instance .
 

El Gringo

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It surprises me how many people aren't aware or doubt the repurposing of guitars by Gibson.
View attachment 16164
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It was done quite a few times over the years. This is my recent comment regarding repurposed CC29s on matkoehler's thread:
"I own a repurposed CC29, aka 1958 Historic Standard, purchased at Wildwood in early 2018.
I was told by the employee that the guitar was originally built as a Collector's Choice #29. Upon further research, I discovered the mark where the stamp was removed from the center of the control cavity. There is also a sanded area where the shoddily-stamped/written "R8" was overlaid. With the aid of a flashlight (known as "the flashlight trick"), I was able to make out the original serial number on the back of the headstock between the D and G tuners and some of the CC stamp at the tip of the headstock (which was sanded down, restamped, and refinished). You can easily discern where the finish was reapplied.
View attachment 16170
Aside from these "discoveries", it was obvious just from the overall look and appointments that this was intended to be a CC29.
After joining these forums I sought out fellow owners and compared notes, and also got into contact with a former CS employee (who 100% verified this story). I believe there were approximately 75 aged and VOS models that were repurposed and sold as Limited Run "Historic Standards" through CME, WW, and Sam Ash. The only things that were altered were the stamps, COA, and pickups (underwound '57 Classics for Custombuckers)."

View attachment 16173

Maybe we enthusiast and aficionado know better and thus avoid said re purposed instruments and shops that would sell these type instruments . Yours is a most beautiful Les Paul I must say . Also we are talking about a lot of money and I am quite sure that the more discerning customers and fans of Gibson Custom Guitars know where to shop and what to buy . I am not trying to throw shade , it's just buyer beware and do your homework as these are expensive instruments and one must do there homework . As I always say buyer beware and only frequent and make purchases from Authorized and Authentic Gibson Custom Dealers/Shops as there are a lot of shady types out there and besides lastly God forbid you have an issue with your expensive Gibson Custom instrument , you will not get factory warranty service that must be blessed and Authorized from the Authentic and Authorized Gibson Custom Dealer/shop ! Then you will be left with out of pocket expenses and cost that can add up very quickly and can and will be expensive . (been there and done that and got the T-shirt and been on the receiving end of out of pocket expenses to the tune of 2 G on one single instrument and , also been there with the blessed Warranty service as well and God Bless big time !!!!!!!!!! ) Very Critically Important ! Remember Trust but Verify !
 

El Gringo

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I have heard two different reasons for the repurposed CC29s:
1. They were part of the first batch that were too "off-color" (Which is hard for me to see.)
2. There weren't enough people interested in spending $7k on a mild-figured R9 that's owned by a lesser-known Japanese artist. (Tamio Okuda)
This artist is not lesser known as he is a fine artist and player as well and his CC is a fine and beautiful instrument on his own and in his neck of the woods is a huge and revered artist . Japan is a super huge market for all things Gibson including Vintage Sunbursts and Gibson Custom Shop and Gibson USA , as they have there own specially made and hand picked tops and such . I mean it is a HUGE market !
 

Wambemando

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May 4, 2018
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Maybe we enthusiast and aficionado know better and thus avoid said re purposed instruments and shops that would sell these type instruments . Yours is a most beautiful Les Paul I must say . Also we are talking about a lot of money and I am quite sure that the more discerning customers and fans of Gibson Custom Guitars know where to shop and what to buy . I am not trying to throw shade , it's just buyer beware and do your homework as these are expensive instruments and one must do there homework . As I always say buyer beware and only frequent and make purchases from Authorized and Authentic Gibson Custom Dealers/Shops as there are a lot of shady types out there and besides lastly God forbid you have an issue with your expensive Gibson Custom instrument , you will not get factory warranty service that must be blessed and Authorized from the Authentic and Authorized Gibson Custom Dealer/shop ! Then you will be left with out of pocket expenses and cost that can add up very quickly and can and will be expensive . (been there and done that and got the T-shirt and been on the receiving end of out of pocket expenses to the tune of 2 G on one single instrument and , also been there with the blessed Warranty service as well and God Bless big time !!!!!!!!!! ) Very Critically Important ! Remember Trust but Verify !
Not sure where you're going with this as I am talking about a guitar purchased at Wildwood Guitars in Louisville, Colorado. (Heck... I bet their banner is at the top of this page if you scroll up, lol). They are quite reputable and I was assisted by one of their long-time employees.
No shade can be thrown at this guitar as I was able to acquire a CC for the price of an R8. There is nothing to "avoid" here and your assumption that I myself am not an "aficianado" or "enthusiast" is beyond pretentious and laughable (especially given the knowledge that I shared here).
 
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Wambemando

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This artist is not lesser known as he is a fine artist and player as well and his CC is a fine and beautiful instrument on his own and in his neck of the woods is a huge and revered artist . Japan is a super huge market for all things Gibson including Vintage Sunbursts and Gibson Custom Shop and Gibson USA , as they have there own specially made and hand picked tops and such . I mean it is a HUGE market !
I can guarantee the majority of the guitar market has no clue who Tamio Okuda is. I agree that he is talented, but he isn't well-known outside of Japan.
He isn't a household name by any means.
 

El Gringo

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Not sure where you're going with this as I am talking about a guitar purchased at Wildwood Guitars in Louisville, Colorado. They are quite reputable and I was assisted by one of their long-time employees.
No shade can be thrown at this guitar as I was able to acquire a CC for the price of an R8. There is nothing to "avoid" here and your assumption that I myself am not an "aficianado" or "enthusiast" is beyond pretentious and laughable (especially given the knowledge that I shared here).
Did you read my post ?
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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There's nothing whatsoever "shady" about the Gibson CS "repurposing" any of these guitars and marketing them as something different. It's all just marketing gimmicks. They make one basic Historic Les Paul standard then differentiate it into a million different versions by tweaking neck profiles, finish colors, hardware, aging, etc.
 

El Gringo

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Messages
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There's nothing whatsoever "shady" about the Gibson CS "repurposing" any of these guitars and marketing them as something different. It's all just marketing gimmicks. They make one basic Historic Les Paul standard then differentiate it into a million different versions by tweaking neck profiles, finish colors, hardware, aging, etc.
My "shady" reference was directed at certain shops that sell Gibson Custom Instruments with the term of "sold as is" for a brand new calendar year model . That is exactly where my "shady" reference was directed . Not at the fine shops such as Dave's Guitars, Wildwood, Music Zoo, Chicago Music Exchange , Wild West Guitars , to name a few of the finer shops that also are sponsors here .
 

SoK66

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Aug 31, 2009
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Well, I see I've elicited some interesting responses! Summing my side of the discussion, I got what is for all intents and purposes a killer '59 for a '58 price. I have no complaints!
 
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pdfiddler

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May 25, 2006
Messages
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Maybe we enthusiast and aficionado know better and thus avoid said re purposed instruments and shops that would sell these type instruments . Yours is a most beautiful Les Paul I must say . Also we are talking about a lot of money and I am quite sure that the more discerning customers and fans of Gibson Custom Guitars know where to shop and what to buy . I am not trying to throw shade , it's just buyer beware and do your homework as these are expensive instruments and one must do there homework . As I always say buyer beware and only frequent and make purchases from Authorized and Authentic Gibson Custom Dealers/Shops as there are a lot of shady types out there and besides lastly God forbid you have an issue with your expensive Gibson Custom instrument , you will not get factory warranty service that must be blessed and Authorized from the Authentic and Authorized Gibson Custom Dealer/shop ! Then you will be left with out of pocket expenses and cost that can add up very quickly and can and will be expensive . (been there and done that and got the T-shirt and been on the receiving end of out of pocket expenses to the tune of 2 G on one single instrument and , also been there with the blessed Warranty service as well and God Bless big time !!!!!!!!!! ) Very Critically Important ! Remember Trust but Verify !
As for the repurposed Felder Burst '59/'58, I've run across 6 or 7 of them, all VOS and all sold new (including mine) originally from HOG out of Rochester, NY
 

JohnnyMacGuitar

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Feb 21, 2022
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Hey folks...just registered, my first post here! I just bought a 2019 Les Paul 58 Reissue VOS (Hand Selected for what thats worth) that was just a few off from yours....my serial is 891047. Just like yours the neck is a little thinner than I was expecting but its perfect. The best LP I've ever played hands down, the guy I got it from said the same and he's owned quite a few. Pics on my instagram page: JohnnyMacGuitar Instagram
 
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