• THIS IS THE 25th ANNIVERSARY YEAR FOR THE LES PAUL FORUM! PLEASE CELEBRATE WITH US AND SUPPORT US WITH A DONATION TO KEEP US GOING! We've made a large financial investment to convert the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and recently moved to a new hosting platform. We also have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!
  • WE HAVE MOVED THE LES PAUL FORUM TO A NEW HOSTING PROVIDER! Let us know how it is going! Many thanks, Mike Slubowski, Admin
  • Please support our Les Paul Forum Sponsors with your business - Gary's Classic Guitars, Wildwood Guitars, Chicago Music Exchange, Reverb.com, Throbak.com and True Vintage Guitar. From personal experience doing business with all of them, they are first class organizations. Thank you!

Given so many factors, as well as settings and volume, and the fingers of the players, can you discern between-

MikeSlub

Administrator
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
15,267
Depends on many things - the amplifier, the guitar, whether you are playing clean or with effects, the type of music, etc. I can do educated guesses but can (and have) been wrong.
 

Steven K

Active member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Messages
104
Thank you Mike, exactly the case with me. I own several guitars and have each type pickup. This is exactly what I find, I do not even attempt to guess. Might sound as though I am lame, however I have even mistaken strats for LP's.
 

Hiwatts-n-Gibsons

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2024
Messages
176
P90's and Humbuckers with tweaking capabilities ? How about types of guitars ? If blindfolded.
Absolutely. P90's have more presence and sensitivity to pick attack, less sag, a more solid fundamental which is a big plus with fuzz and octave pedals, and a far wider dynamic range.

If plugged into the same amp, same settings, same speakers the difference is immediately noticeable at all but the most extreme levels of overdrive/distortion, and undeniably noticeable through any kind of fuzz pedal.
 

hankjmcc

New member
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
24
Absolutely. P90's have more presence and sensitivity to pick attack, less sag, a more solid fundamental which is a big plus with fuzz and octave pedals, and a far wider dynamic range.

If plugged into the same amp, same settings, same speakers the difference is immediately noticeable at all but the most extreme levels of overdrive/distortion, and undeniably noticeable through any kind of fuzz pedal.
The difference in compression when you strike a note is what I surprised me the most when I had my Junior. I've been so used to Humbuckers my whole life that P90s felt like I couldn't hit it hard enough to get the compression. It was great for banging out chords but I felt like it was missing something when playing lead.
 

Hiwatts-n-Gibsons

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2024
Messages
176
The difference in compression when you strike a note is what I surprised me the most when I had my Junior. I've been so used to Humbuckers my whole life that P90s felt like I couldn't hit it hard enough to get the compression. It was great for banging out chords but I felt like it was missing something when playing lead.
I've not had that same problem, but as players we're probably vastly differentiated in our setups, touch and technique. I play P90's, Staples, Goldfoils, Dynasonics, and Filtertrons through some very articulate high headroom amps..i've got two Custom 100's (one Hiwatt and one Reeves),, an Ampeg VT22 rehoused as a head, and a Matamp GT150 with 4 KT88's and keep the gain on it very low, and yet I have no issue getting leads to sing. I also use a Treble Booster upfront into a Fulltone Echoplex copy before the amps, and add various fuzz pedals for heavier tones. I like toothy raw tones that get nasty as hell when I wind up the guitar volume knobs.
 

hankjmcc

New member
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
24
I've not had that same problem, but as players we're probably vastly differentiated in our setups, touch and technique. I play P90's, Staples, Goldfoils, Dynasonics, and Filtertrons through some very articulate high headroom amps..i've got two Custom 100's (one Hiwatt and one Reeves),, an Ampeg VT22 rehoused as a head, and a Matamp GT150 with 4 KT88's and keep the gain on it very low, and yet I have no issue getting leads to sing. I also use a Treble Booster upfront into a Fulltone Echoplex copy before the amps, and add various fuzz pedals for heavier tones. I like toothy raw tones that get nasty as hell when I wind up the guitar volume knobs.
You are right that the setup changes so much. Part of the problem i most likely had was that I lacked clean headroom. When I had both Guitars my rig was Goldtop and Junior, Wah, Tuner & Victoria Tweed Tremolux. There was basically no headroom especially with the humbuckers. The P90s cleaned up amazingly well and was great on chords etc but felt optimized towards strumming chords. Just hitting single notes felt different than I've been accustom too with the compression & sag of the note. Now that I've made the jump to Vibroverbs that have some real headroom, I'd probably enjoy a Junior more than I did with my prior rig.

Also, did you go Solid state or tube echoplex? I've been tempted to try to add one to the rig.
 

Hiwatts-n-Gibsons

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2024
Messages
176
You are right that the setup changes so much. Part of the problem i most likely had was that I lacked clean headroom. When I had both Guitars my rig was Goldtop and Junior, Wah, Tuner & Victoria Tweed Tremolux. There was basically no headroom especially with the humbuckers. The P90s cleaned up amazingly well and was great on chords etc but felt optimized towards strumming chords. Just hitting single notes felt different than I've been accustom too with the compression & sag of the note. Now that I've made the jump to Vibroverbs that have some real headroom, I'd probably enjoy a Junior more than I did with my prior rig.

Also, did you go Solid state or tube echoplex? I've been tempted to try to add one to the rig.
I went with the Tube Tape Echo. Tbt though I doubt you could go wrong with either of them. If you have the coin on hand I cannot recommend dropping it on one enough. I will say though man that tube preamp on the TTE sounds sooo damn good.

I've had an old BB chip Ibenez AD9, and a Pigtronix Echolution 2D. Both were great pedals, but man the sound of the delay path on the TTE is just on a whole nother level entirely, and that is gonna be pretty much the same on either unit. That is really the reason for considering either of them. The tube preamp is just the icing on the cake, but it is some damn good icing.

If you want to get pretty close for a lot less dough I do have to admit the Echolution 2D on the Tape mode with the Golden Ratio setting and a Dunlop EP Preamp pedal infront of it will get you like 75% of the way there, and offer way more flexibility and other cool delay options as well as an amazing filter section with a super juicy sounding phaser. Whether that extra 25% of extra-special real-deal mojo sauce is worth a lot of extra coin and less flexibility is up to you to decide. I have to say I would choose the TTE 10 out of 10 times if I had too choose between them. Luckily I don't because I've had the Echolution for years now, and love the pedal.

I go from my pedal switcher's output straight into the TTE so its preamp is always in the signal path, and use a remote footswitch to turn the delay on and off. Add a guitar with a Bigsby and you will not be able to wipe the grin off your face for days.

Adding a second amp with the TTE's stereo outs feeding both is just unreal sounding, which is normally how I run it. One side generally goes into my Hiwatt (DR103) Custom 100 or Reeves (DR504) Custom 100, and the other side goes into the NMV Ampeg VT22 with its incredible reverb.

I had a Magnatone Panoramic Head for a while, and with the stereo outs on the TTE feeding the stereo ins on the Maggie with that juicy Harmonic Tremolo and surf approved spring reverb OMG it was incredible sounding. The amp is a NMV amp with headroom probably close in terms to your Tremolux, and I got all the compression I needed out of it. My Eastman 330 copy with Fralin Dog Ear P90's sounded amazing for vintage rock tones with that set up.

Relative to that my Hiwatts, Ampeg, and Matamp have way more headroom and less compression, but more than enough warmth in the low mids and beefy lowend booty for lack of a better term to never sound harsh, stiff, or thin.

When I mentioned setup I was talking more in terms of action, string gauge (10's in E standard, and up a gauge for every step down I tune a guitar to all the way to a 15-70 set in A standard), pick thickness and material (I use heavy picks, generally 2 mm Dunlop Gator Grips), and pickup adjustments to height and pole pieces. I tweak all of the above to work perfectly for how I play.

I plan on ordering either a Mr Black Pan-A-Trem or Flux Liquid trem soon to get me back there.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20240620_200104_Photos.jpg
    Screenshot_20240620_200104_Photos.jpg
    142.9 KB · Views: 4
  • Screenshot_20240620_200128_Photos.jpg
    Screenshot_20240620_200128_Photos.jpg
    142.9 KB · Views: 4
  • Screenshot_20240620_200139_Photos.jpg
    Screenshot_20240620_200139_Photos.jpg
    264.4 KB · Views: 4
  • Screenshot_20240621_015553_Photos.jpg
    Screenshot_20240621_015553_Photos.jpg
    110 KB · Views: 4
Last edited:

hankjmcc

New member
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
24
I went with the Tube Tape Echo. Tbt though I doubt you could go wrong with either of them. If you have the coin on hand I cannot recommend dropping it on one enough. I will say though man that tube preamp on the TTE sounds sooo damn good.

I've had an old BB chip Ibenez AD9, and a Pigtronix Echolution 2D. Both were great pedals, but man the sound of the delay path on the TTE is just on a whole nother level entirely, and that is gonna be pretty much the same on either unit. That is really the reason for considering either of them. The tube preamp is just the icing on the cake, but it is some damn good icing.

If you want to get pretty close for a lot less dough I do have to admit the Echolution 2D on the Tape mode with the Golden Ratio setting and a Dunlop EP Preamp pedal infront of it will get you like 75% of the way there, and offer way more flexibility and other cool delay options as well as an amazing filter section with a super juicy sounding phaser. Whether that extra 25% of extra-special real-deal mojo sauce is worth a lot of extra coin and less flexibility is up to you to decide. I have to say I would choose the TTE 10 out of 10 times if I had too choose between them. Luckily I don't because I've had the Echolution for years now, and love the pedal.

I go from my pedal switcher's output straight into the TTE so its preamp is always in the signal path, and use a remote footswitch to turn the delay on and off. Add a guitar with a Bigsby and you will not be able to wipe the grin off your face for days.

Adding a second amp with the TTE's stereo outs feeding both is just unreal sounding, which is normally how I run it. One side generally goes into my Hiwatt (DR103) Custom 100 or Reeves (DR504) Custom 100, and the other side goes into the NMV Ampeg VT22 with its incredible reverb.

I had a Magnatone Panoramic Head for a while, and with the stereo outs on the TTE feeding the stereo ins on the Maggie with that juicy Harmonic Tremolo and surf approved spring reverb OMG it was incredible sounding. The amp is a NMV amp with headroom probably close in terms to your Tremolux, and I got all the compression I needed out of it. My Eastman 330 copy with Fralin Dog Ear P90's sounded amazing for vintage rock tones with that set up.

Relative to that my Hiwatts, Ampeg, and Matamp have way more headroom and less compression, but more than enough warmth in the low mids and beefy lowend booty for lack of a better term to never sound harsh, stiff, or thin.

When I mentioned setup I was talking more in terms of action, string gauge (10's in E standard, and up a gauge for every step down I tune a guitar to all the way to a 15-70 set in A standard), pick thickness and material (I use heavy picks, generally 2 mm Dunlop Gator Grips), and pickup adjustments to height and pole pieces. I tweak all of the above to work perfectly for how I play.

I plan on ordering either a Mr Black Pan-A-Trem or Flux Liquid trem soon to get me back there.
That looks like a totally sweet rig! My biggest hold up (besides $) is that I'd be nervous to gig with it but anyone I've asked said they are worth the potential headaches. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out a reasonable solution to justify dragging a real Leslie to gigs. I'm in between saving up for a Leslie vs a tape echo.
 

Hiwatts-n-Gibsons

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2024
Messages
176
I love Leslie sounds. A few good non back and bank breaking options are a Univibe, or something like the Gig-FX Chopper or other stereo Trem/Pannerr and a second amp. I had the Chopper for a long time, and it definitely did the Leslie sound well
 
Last edited:

hankjmcc

New member
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
24
Sorta tying into the OG question, I feel like if I was standing in the room, there's a feel difference to the sound that I'd be able to tell a Leslie vs simulators. But that's a dream rig a pair of leslies ala Frampton!
 

Hiwatts-n-Gibsons

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2024
Messages
176
Sorta tying into the OG question, I feel like if I was standing in the room, there's a feel difference to the sound that I'd be able to tell a Leslie vs simulators. But that's a dream rig a pair of leslies ala Frampton!
The simulators really need to be operated in true stereo to reach their potential imo, but yes I totally agree with you.

I always wanted one of the Mesa Boogie takes on the Leslie with an actual rotating speaker, but cannot remember its name at the moment.
 

Hiwatts-n-Gibsons

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2024
Messages
176
Remember the actual Leslie speaker is spinning while pushing air reproducing the doppler effect
I didn't want to contradict you off hand, but could've sworn they had a rotating baffle or horn and not a rotating speaker. I double checked and it is indeed a rotating baffle on the Leslie's, and the Hammond speakers utilized a rotating horn.

 

TBurst Std

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
426
Can I. As much as anyone. What’s more important is if I want that tone I know what instrument (with what pickups) to grab and how to tweak my system to get that tone. I view that as an infinitely better skill.
 

Steven K

Active member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Messages
104
I didn't want to contradict you off hand, but could've sworn they had a rotating baffle or horn and not a rotating speaker. I double checked and it is indeed a rotating baffle on the Leslie's, and the Hammond speakers utilized a rotating horn.

They actually are speakers that push both sound and air out of two attached spinning upper horns facing opposite directions for the higher frequencies. and a lower baffle for the bass which moves up and down and pushes the bass downwards however they also push a lot of air. If they were not speakers how would the leslie itself push so much sound ? This is why they are called leslie speakers
 

Hiwatts-n-Gibsons

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2024
Messages
176
They actually are speakers that push both sound and air out of two attached spinning upper horns facing opposite directions for the higher frequencies. and a lower baffle for the bass which moves up and down and pushes the bass downwards however they also push a lot of air. If they were not speakers how would the leslie itself push so much sound ?
Yes there is a speaker, it is stationary and the other components rotate.
 
Top