Lacquer cracking on Les Pauls

paul kossoff · Jun 7, 2016

Why are all the old goldtops i see such as the one on this thread have checking Diagonally ..while much of the new ones like mine checking vertically !! ....?

HSTR · Aug 28, 2016

paul kossoff said:
Why are all the old goldtops i see such as the one on this thread have checking Diagonally ..while much of the new ones like mine checking vertically !! ....?

Now that is a good question. I was watching this video

yesterday and I was wondering what determines the direction of the checking? If it is the wood, then that would mean that some tops are glued on a quarter turn different in direction as others I assume...

J T · Aug 28, 2016

My R7 is like that

Keefoman · Mar 28, 2017

My 06 CS TV Special. Got it in 2010 and it had a couple of streaks behind the bridge. Now it's turned into something different. No aging or "treatment" to achieve this. I use it for live gigging every other weekend. Besides that it's in its case or hangs on the wall in my "cave".

tokairic · Mar 29, 2017

K701 said:
That seems to be a common problem for goldtops in that area.

I remember the complaints 10/12 years ago (I was one of them) about the super thick plastic 'nitro' Gibson were using. The finish on my standard was still soft after 18 months. Nasty great smelling stuff. Now it looks like they have cut down on plasticiser and spraying it thinner and having the problems associated with that. I'd prefer the latter. I gave up on my LP and it sat under a bed for 3 years. Then I had it refinished with thin nitro and wow what a difference tonally. It no longer lives under the bed.

I personally would never buy a polyester Gibson.

If Gibson did start using poly lacquer, it would be kept secret by them and disguised by using a made up name for the finish which 'infers' that it may be linked to nitro. Each high end manufacturer that uses some sort of poly finish has its own name for the 'special coating', usually maintaining that it enhances tonality.
Gibson managed to keep the laminated rosewood fretboards secret for years........

tokairic · Mar 29, 2017

J T said:
ewww really? You mean kind of like that three inch layer of goop what they pour all over tables and bars?

I don't see layers of goop on Taylor acoustics or PRS Private Stock guitars.......this comment is insulting to the high end companies that have researched the best thin and durable finishes for our guitars to give the best appearance, longevity and tonal perfection they can possibly attain.
Nitro is an outdated and inadequate finish today.
Everything else in the world has moved on (compare your car to a 1959 model) why not guitar manufacture.

tokairic · Mar 29, 2017

B Ingram said:
Got photos of the finish problems on your guitars? A lot of talk back & forth, but nobody knows what issues you're encountering or their severity. Maybe it's normal, maybe not.

I sent photos to Gibson and my supplying dealer (who referred them to Gibson). Gibsons reply was that it was down to me and finish isn't covered at all. My two guitars were like the Goldtop finish cracking. I don't call it normal for that to happen in only 5 months when the guitars are stored in ideal conditions.........

deytookerjaabs · Mar 29, 2017

I've seen lots of photos/videos of fellas playing their Gibsons & Fenders in the 50's, tons of the those guitars started checking at least within the first year. No, you can't really predict it because there are different factors involved. I'm in the camp of "love it" and I mean no offense by that!

tokairic · Mar 30, 2017

deytookerjaabs said:
I've seen lots of photos/videos of fellas playing their Gibsons & Fenders in the 50's, tons of the those guitars started checking at least within the first year. No, you can't really predict it because there are different factors involved. I'm in the camp of "love it" and I mean no offense by that!

You are entitled to 'love the checking/cracking lacquer' if that your thing, however I can only appreciate the 'vintage look' if its on a vintage guitar. If I had wanted 'reliced' I would bought 'reliced".
Also bear in mind that nitro was pretty much the only cheap finish they could use on guitars in the '50's., and probably only used because it was a cheaper alternative to oiling or french polishing. Players you see in the old photos would tour with their guitars and treat them like crap, hence the rapid deterioration.
Heck some of the morons actually smashed them up on stage!!
In the 21st century we should not hark back to the '50's methods for over the counter guitars - maybe on Custom specials, to order only - but use a durable finish that enhances the tone and look of the guitar (like V2, or other UV finish). Nobody complains about Taylor guitar finishes being gloopy or ruining the tone, and they are excellent guitars.
It is probably only the pressure to speed up and cheapen the spraying process by Gibson that has resulted in such a variation in quality and finish durability. Every minute that guitar is hanging on a rack drying costs money.

deytookerjaabs · Mar 30, 2017

tokairic said:
You are entitled to 'love the checking/cracking lacquer' if that your thing, however I can only appreciate the 'vintage look' if its on a vintage guitar. If I had wanted 'reliced' I would bought 'reliced".
Also bear in mind that nitro was pretty much the only cheap finish they could use on guitars in the '50's., and probably only used because it was a cheaper alternative to oiling or french polishing. Players you see in the old photos would tour with their guitars and treat them like crap, hence the rapid deterioration.
Heck some of the morons actually smashed them up on stage!!
In the 21st century we should not hark back to the '50's methods for over the counter guitars - maybe on Custom specials, to order only - but use a durable finish that enhances the tone and look of the guitar (like V2, or other UV finish). Nobody complains about Taylor guitar finishes being gloopy or ruining the tone, and they are excellent guitars.
It is probably only the pressure to speed up and cheapen the spraying process by Gibson that has resulted in such a variation in quality and finish durability. Every minute that guitar is hanging on a rack drying costs money.

There's a lot of arguments/complaints just like yours about Gibson guitars. "The strings catch cause the neck & break angle is too steep" "I can see file marks all over the binding" "The binding isn't flush with the body" "My guitar doesn't check like the old ones" "My guitar started checking, what do I do."

IMO if you don't want that stuff you should look elsewhere. When Gibson modernizes small details consumers complain, when it's not modernized they complain, it's part of the fact most of their guitars were originally designed and built 6+ decades ago.

J T · Mar 30, 2017

tokairic said:
...
Nitro is an outdated and inadequate finish today.
...

Really? :hmm

ok then

Karldoog · Apr 9, 2017

tokairic said:
I sent photos to Gibson and my supplying dealer (who referred them to Gibson). Gibsons reply was that it was down to me and finish isn't covered at all. My two guitars were like the Goldtop finish cracking. I don't call it normal for that to happen in only 5 months when the guitars are stored in ideal conditions.........

Honestly, I feel your pain..I would be seriously pissed off if that happened to my new Sunbursts that I just bought---a 2013 '59 Reissue R9 and a 2016 Trad Pro III. I want to look at that finish for a while like I'm gazing at the silky-smooth thigh of an 18 year old cheerleader and let it stir me ... forget I said that..lol

But seriously, I "get it".

J.D. · Apr 9, 2017

Gibson finishes are lacquer (variants). Most Gibson finishes will eventually check if exposed to temperature and humidity swings. Like it or not, it is historically accurate.

The V12 finish PRS is using currently is incredible. It is very thin and hard, but almost impossible to finish check. Similar to a new car finish I suppose.

0 2339 · Apr 9, 2017

hey ric, could we see some photos of your guitar? how is the checking/cracking now after you have it for more than a year?

Victory Pete · Nov 15, 2018

I have many Gibson electrics and acoustics. Not one of them have any finish checking whatsoever. One thing no one has mentioned is the fact that Nitrocellulose lacquer can be repaired with no visible lines at all. You can't do that with Polyester or Polyurethane. Nitrocellulose lacquer melts into itself.

renderit · Nov 16, 2018

1)

tokairic said:
If Gibson did start using poly lacquer, it would be kept secret by them and disguised by using a made up name for the finish which 'infers' that it may be linked to nitro. Each high end manufacturer that uses some sort of poly finish has its own name for the 'special coating', usually maintaining that it enhances tonality.
Gibson managed to keep the laminated rosewood fretboards secret for years........

c)

tokairic said:
J T said:

ewww really? You mean kind of like that three inch layer of goop what they pour all over tables and bars?

I don't see layers of goop on Taylor acoustics or PRS Private Stock guitars.......this comment is insulting to the high end companies that have researched the best thin and durable finishes for our guitars to give the best appearance, longevity and tonal perfection they can possibly attain.
Nitro is an outdated and inadequate finish today.
Everything else in the world has moved on (compare your car to a 1959 model) why not guitar manufacture.

Click to expand...

Wow! Are you all over the place!

In answer to your orange comment I present your red comment! Which infers sub standard practices...

Your yellow comment is just wrong. Everybody knew pretty much when it happened or shortly thereafter, unless you weren't paying attention...

Mr. Purple is written with a typical stupidity of the past so we demonize it. Nitro was and is a fantastic finish and very easy to get a hard shine on. It was used on cars, furniture and instruments for MANY years and fazed out in the 80's for health reasons because it was 'dangerous to spray'. Up until that point many items were still coated by it. It don't sink into metal... Go out and look at your orange peeled car and tell me poly is better.....WHOOPS there's red again!

rick31797 · Jan 24, 2019

Tarcisioo said:
Why are you saying that checking is a sign of age? With a proper cured nitro, 1 day is enough to achieve finish checking! A guitar doesn't need to be 10 years old to check, only one night!

by your thought process ....we should be seeing GIBSONs hanging in the stores and FINISHED CHECKED ..you can bet if a Gibson starts finish checking at the store, it gets sent back to Gibson...IF a gibson gets sold and the next day the finish checks , the buyer is going to be held responsbile.

Finish checking doesnt mean its not a manufacturing problem....but most common is extreme tempature changes which is totally up to the owner...it can be as simple as sitting on a stand close to a heat register.

Just for the record i have a 38 yr old Gibson with no finish checking , so just because it has nitro does not mean its going to happen, if Gibson is doing a proper job.

rick31797 · Jan 24, 2019

deytookerjaabs said:
There's a lot of arguments/complaints just like yours about Gibson guitars. "The strings catch cause the neck & break angle is too steep" "I can see file marks all over the binding" "The binding isn't flush with the body" "My guitar doesn't check like the old ones" "My guitar started checking, what do I do."

IMO if you don't want that stuff you should look elsewhere. When Gibson modernizes small details consumers complain, when it's not modernized they complain, it's part of the fact most of their guitars were originally designed and built 6+ decades ago.

good to know in your mind , FINISH checking is just part of the deal of buying a guitar ...its actually free of charge ...remember when the paint was pealing off fords ...just the part of aging ...lol

WytLytnyn · Jan 24, 2019

Haven't read the whole thread, but I believe I saw a vid recently of an Anderton's guy taking liquid nitrogen or something to the effect to induce checking on his pristine Goldtop.

To each his own. I think think a Goldtop with checking looks bada$$. Minor wear on a well-flamed sunburst is sweet but probably would want to play my wear into the skin of mine.....whenever I get one....

RocknRollShakeUp · Jan 24, 2019

Well you are getting a free and natural checking process that you didn't bargain on getting, and that you don't like, I understand. The market, if you will, has asked for this type of finish and Gibson seems to have responded perhaps, as most of us want a vintage looking instrument that does show a natural relicing effect. Perhaps you can sell the guitar? Maybe get a PRS or something similar?

By the way I recently noticed that Wildwood guitars has introduced a line of Fenders with an extremely thin nitro finish, called relic ready or something like that, that is explicitly designed to ding up and check with "normal" use! Definitely stay away from those guitars, as they are not for you!

Best of luck!

Lacquer cracking on Les Pauls

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