Feiten Tuning System . . .

Dan Erlewine · Apr 21, 2003

It doesn't drop right in. . .

. . . it's a tricky fitting job I'd say. Definitely a job for a top-notch nut maker.

dan

Johnnytone · Apr 21, 2003

how about engraving the nut something like this, but maybe on the top of the nut facing the tuners?

Just rub some graphite in and the name will pop.

Bayou Bostick · Apr 21, 2003

Is buzz still....

....putting his system on Washburn guitars? It's hard to sell a incredible tuning system on a "O.K." guitar. It will help some, but you are still limited by the guitar.

Not that all Washburns are bad, but I've played a few that were just crappy guitars with the Buzz Feiten tuning system. They do make some cool guitars, but they are not all great.

I'm sure the marketing idea is solid, but a player is not gonna be convinced of something cool on a mediocre instrument.

I know other good American guitar builders are using his system too, but I think the Washburn thing probably hurts more than it helps.

I have played his system on some cool guitars and I like it. I will buy an over the counter shelf nut if/when they become available.

Maybe the logo could be on the back side of the nut?(tuner side) I like Johnnytone's idea too.

I'm not trying to offend Washburn fans, these are just some thoughts from a guy who worked at a music store and played alot of Washurn guitars that came in the back door!

Snags · Apr 21, 2003

Re: Is buzz still....

Bayou Bostick said:
I'm sure the marketing idea is solid, but a player is not gonna be convinced of something cool on a mediocre instrument.

Not true. That's why lower-end guitars feature things like Duncan-designed pickups, Floyd Rose licensed bridges, and Grover tuners, to name just a few examples (not to mention "GIBSON" engraved truss rod covers on Epis). That's marketing strategy to boost sales of guitars at the lower price point level, and it works.

Scott97 · Apr 22, 2003

I would definately prefer not to have a logo or sticker on either the nut itself or the back of the headstock.

Bayou Bostick · Apr 22, 2003

Snags, you have a point.

I guess my point is if you are trying to break into a market, maybe you should start at the top and work your way down. Start with reputable American company and work your way down to an import. I know Washburn sells both.

Floyd Rose and Seymour Duncan didn't START by modifying Washburns.

Maybe he did pitch it to the big dogs first and they blew him off. I may have done the same thing as he. And now that I think of it, he's actually been doing this for several years. Who am I to question a guy who has made a great career out of playing guitar?!

Of course, this really doesn't have much to do with the function of Buzz's system, which I like. Maybe I'm just typing to hear myself ramble.

CaevanO'Shite · Apr 22, 2003

Talk is cheap...

...but cheap is good!

This is a hangout, right? Shoot the breeze, about whatever tangents pop into your mind! It's all good! -k

Snags · Apr 22, 2003

Re: Snags, you have a point.

Bayou Bostick said:
I guess my point is if you are trying to break into a market, maybe you should start at the top and work your way down. Start with reputable American company and work your way down to an import. I know Washburn sells both.

If I were BF and this was my livelihood, my primary concern would be selling units regardless of whether they are on cheap guitars or boutique one-offs. Dude's gotta eat.

I'm sure that when Dan was first getting his business going he didn't turn away customers because a guitar wasn't top notch quality...

And what better way to hit the market than to saturatate the lower price point products? Those are the guitars that sell like hotcakes.

Pickdropper · Apr 22, 2003

Actually, a buddy of mine has a $2K Washburn that he got fairly cheap a while back. It does have the Buzz Feiten system as well as the veritable Duncan 59/JB combo in it. It actually is a great sounding/playing instrument and it fits in with other guitars at the $2K point. Having Washburn on the headstock sure doesn't add any status to it, but it is a nice instrument. I think it is one of the ones Derek Trucks uses or did use at some point.

Dan Erlewine · Apr 22, 2003

Re: Re: Snags, you have a point.

Snags said:
If I were BF and this was my livelihood, my primary concern would be selling units regardless of whether they are on cheap guitars or boutique one-offs. Dude's gotta eat. I'm sure that when Dan was first getting his business going he didn't turn away customers because a guitar wasn't top notch quality...

I still don't Snagglepuss. I took in a cheap Alvarez acoustic today that I can make play alot better pretty quick. It buzzes completely. It needs some humidification (the top has sunk) then a new taller saddle, a fast fret level, and it will play. The nut may or may not be up to snuff (I hope it is, that is the one area that you cannot always do a "quickie" on). I mean, you can, but I'm not real into raising a string with a matchbook cover.

In the guitar repair biz you really have to do it all if you want the good stuff to show up at your door. When you start turning folks away they stop talking about you (or they don't say something nice, which is worth than nothing at all — I learned that in "Bambi"). Besides, I like to work REAL fast and efficient sometimes on a guitar where I don't have to worry about even breathing on it.

(Lots of guitars that I have gotten from Forum members are brand-new (or at least look it) expen$ive guitars. You can't work on them as you can a $225. Alvarez.

Also, the Alvarez is going to be played by a kid . . . just getting started. His dad used to play it and he's proud to own it. It's way good enough as a starter guitar and then some. So I'm glad to keep the soil tilled (and even make a little money if things work out). If I run into troubles, I end up eating a repair now and then, but it all works out in the long run. You couldn't count on six hands how often I have done a job for that reason (at one level or another).

dan

philtone · Apr 22, 2003

Well said Dan. You hit the nail on the head.

grinder · Apr 26, 2003

I got my Washburn HB-35 so dirt cheap brand new that I am ashamed to say what the price was.
But it ain't no POS that is for sure. I have found only two minor things that one could pick about on the overall construction of it and they are inconsequential to the way it sounds.

It is a joy to play, the tailpiece was snug to the deck when I got it, it sustains well and bends forever. It is a very sweet playing guitar. I thought about swapping the pups long ago until I actually plugged it into a good tube amp. I know I don't have the experience of 20 pup comparison that most here have but for the "OK" guitar market this one is a hell of a guitar for the money.

As far as the Feiten nut with logo thing, I've got the decal on the back of the headstock and it doesn't bother me.
The engraving wouldn't bother me either.
I am in advertising. Logos are brand recognition. Get em out there.
Nobody is going to see it when you are onstage anyway.

davidp158 · Oct 14, 2004

Feiten-izing a LP and tuner/intonation questions

I had a Feiten shelf nut put on my Lentz S guitar and I'm thinking about having it done to my new LP '57 Historic reissue. BTW, I'm fine with the color and the engraved logo. No one has noticed it until I've pointed it out, and I think its a subtle way to get the Feiten name out there.

How well does the Feiten system work with shorter scale string lenghts, like Gibsons? I have more tuning problems with my Gibson (those crappy tuners gotta go, and the nut needs to be replaced anyway) and hope the Feiten system will help.

I have a KORG DT-7 tuner, and wonder if it also work with the LP after it has the Feiten shelf nut. Are the Feiten offsets the same for short and long string scale lengths?

As I frequently experiment with different string brands, and I'm working up to heavier gauge strings and need to make setup adjustments, I've been thinking of investing in the Peterson VS-II strobe tuner. The DT-7 is OK for live use, but its only accurate within 5 cents. There are some (hopefully accurate) posts on the 'net with the offsets required to intonate Feiten-ized guitars with the VS-II. Any thoughts on the VS-II as a tuner for doing my own setups and tweaks to guitars with the Feiten shelf nut?

thanks in advance for any advice on this,

Dave Patterson

scottlerner · Oct 14, 2004

Re: Feiten-izing a LP and tuner/intonation questions

davidp158 said:
How well does the Feiten system work with shorter scale string lenghts, like Gibsons? I have more tuning problems with my Gibson (those crappy tuners gotta go, and the nut needs to be replaced anyway) and hope the Feiten system will help.

I have a KORG DT-7 tuner, and wonder if it also work with the LP after it has the Feiten shelf nut. Are the Feiten offsets the same for short and long string scale lengths?

As I frequently experiment with different string brands, and I'm working up to heavier gauge strings and need to make setup adjustments, I've been thinking of investing in the Peterson VS-II strobe tuner. The DT-7 is OK for live use, but its only accurate within 5 cents. There are some (hopefully accurate) posts on the 'net with the offsets required to intonate Feiten-ized guitars with the VS-II. Any thoughts on the VS-II as a tuner for doing my own setups and tweaks to guitars with the Feiten shelf nut?

thanks in advance for any advice on this,

Dave Patterson

I have the BF system on my Bakers. I love it. I use the VSII btw. Much better than the DT7 I replaced. The offsets are, from low to high, E -2 A -2 D -2 G -2 B +1 E 0

I use 11 gauge and this is pushing the range of intonating to the limit. I also have discovered with good certainty, that D'addario strings intonate best if you use 11 gauge. DO NOT USE DR. They would not intonate. Not close.

Scott

slipperyfingers · Oct 14, 2004

Well folks,
I had the shelf nut with the lightning bolt on it installed on my guitar. The lightning bolt does not bother me, but my guitar is not a Gibson Historic, and I could see where some folks would prefer not to have any logo on the nut. I think Buzz should just make them plain, as the lightning bolt is very subtle...no one from a distance is going to notice it...so it's not great advertising anyway.

my :2cents

Bill

(By the way the BFTS is great) :spam

davidp158 · Oct 15, 2004

Re: Feiten-izing a LP and tuner/intonation questions

Scott,

Thanks for the reply. Are Baker guitars short/Gibson scale necks? Do you know if the offsets are the same for both Fender and Gibson guitars with the Feiten system?

Regarding the offsets you indicate, I noticed that the hi E string has none. The shelf nut shortens the string length, so I'm wondering if hi E string is sharp when playing the 3rd fret G note. I assume the zero offset will still require adjusting the bridge saddle, but curious just the same.

I had an Anderson with the Feiten system, and currently have a Feiten shelf nut on my Lentz guitar. Both guitars are MUCH eaiser to get in tune, play in tune and require less tweaking during gigs.

Regarding string gauges, do you feel 10s will intonate better, or worse, on a short scale neck than 11s? I use 10s on my long scale neck guitars, but preger 11s on short scale necks.

thanks for taking time to respond,

Dave (sometimes in tune) Patterson

scottlerner said:
I have the BF system on my Bakers. I love it. I use the VSII btw. Much better than the DT7 I replaced. The offsets are, from low to high, E -2 A -2 D -2 G -2 B +1 E 0

I use 11 gauge and this is pushing the range of intonating to the limit. I also have discovered with good certainty, that D'addario strings intonate best if you use 11 gauge. DO NOT USE DR. They would not intonate. Not close.

Scott

chopp3r · Oct 15, 2004

I wouldnt want thelogo on the top... maybe on the side (fret marker side)

JVIoneyman · Oct 15, 2004

If you get this system, youdont have to tune the guitar differently..do you? I mean, does it change the method of tuning at all?

JVIoneyman · Oct 15, 2004

If you get this system, you dont have to tune the guitar differently..do you? I mean, does it change the method of tuning at all?

davidp158 · Oct 15, 2004

Yes, you should tune a Feiten-ized guitar differently, but you can tune it to a regular tuner. My Tom Anderson guitar shipped with a note that gave suggested "shifts" in tuning to work with the Feiten tuning system. It suggested which strings will be tuned a bit sharp or flat. To answer your questions, I'd say you could get passable results from a regular guitar tuner, or even by ear, once you know how to make the compensations. However, if you're going to invest in the Feiten system, you'll get more from it with a proper tuner.

I purchased the KORG DT-7 tuner, which has a Feiten "mode" switch that lets you tune open strings (and check intonation at the 12th fret) to the Feiten tuning. The DT-7 will also work with regular guitar setups, and its a reliable tuner for live use and some set up work. I intend to get a strobe tuner (Peterson VS-II) for set up work, but the DT-7 is fine for gigs.

Bear in mind that its a subtle difference, but it is exactly this difference that makes the Feiten system work so well. No guitar will ever be perfectly in tune, but the Feiten system sort of "tempers" the range of available notes on the guitar to be more in tune.

I hope this helps a bit,
Dave

JVIoneyman said:
If you get this system, youdont have to tune the guitar differently..do you? I mean, does it change the method of tuning at all?

Feiten Tuning System . . .

New member

Les Paul Forum Member

New member

Snags

Guest

New member

New member

New member

Snags

Guest

Active member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member