1953 ES-295 - Why is this action so high?

tzurby · Feb 29, 2020

This 1953 ES-295 is all original except for the refinish. It sound very, very good. However, the action is very high. Around 2.5 to 3 mm, Gibson standard is 2mm, Dan Erlewine recommends 1,2mm. (Relief is good with 0.2mm.)

The action cannot be lowered. The thumbwheels on the posts are already fully down. And the strings are already very close to the pickup covers. So, using the thumbwheel method (putting the posts aside and using two thin thumbwheels for fixing replacement threads instead, possibly another one for adjusting the hight) would not work. I tried it.

It seems the high action is how the guitar has been delivered in the early 1950s. Could this be? I don't see any signs of a neck reset.

Gold Tone · Mar 1, 2020

My guess without having in hand is that it is beginning to need a neck reset

garywright · Mar 1, 2020

Looks like the end of the fingerboard is diving ..I had an early 60s 175 which did the same ...let’s see a side shot of the action from the nut to the last fret..also what’s the string height at the 5th fret.

ourmaninthenorth · Mar 1, 2020

garywright said:
Looks like the end of the fingerboard is diving ..I had an early 60s 175 which did the same ...let’s see a side shot of the action from the nut to the last fret..also what’s the string height at the 5th fret.

What was the fix on the 175 Gary, neck re-set?

garywright · Mar 1, 2020

S

ourmaninthenorth said:
What was the fix on the 175 Gary, neck re-set?

Hey Paul ..I was told that was not uncommon with those type boards and eventually sold it on eBay ..the action wasn’t too bad as the string traveled towards the nut ..that’s why I’m curious what his is like

tzurby · Mar 1, 2020

I don't think it's the fingerboard which is diving.

Action is good on the 5th fret, around 2 mm (this Chinese gauge needs to be read in this way). The 12th fret is alread 2,5 mm. And the last fret is 3mm.

The neck is straight (with just 0,2mm relief).

So, if this is not how this guitar has been delivered, the hole neck began to move. However, there are no signs of a tilt on the heel of the neck / body joint.

Gold Tone · Mar 1, 2020

Hmmmmm

I think best take it to a luthier for diagnosis

ourmaninthenorth · Mar 1, 2020

Fantastic set of pictures Friend.

I have absolutely nothing sensible to say other than that, can't for the life of me figure out what has happened.

Hope you get to the bottom of this, can you keep us posted, this is really fascinating?

:salude

Toecutter · Mar 2, 2020

Hi,
Based on the first picture, it looks like the top is warping upward. Maybe an internal bracing issue? Since it's a refin it could be hiding issues.

good luck,
John

garywright · Mar 2, 2020

nice group of pix ..sorry, I don’t have anything to add that hasn’t been mentioned

brandtkronholm · Mar 3, 2020

Toecutter said:
Hi,
Based on the first picture, it looks like the top is warping upward. Maybe an internal bracing issue? Since it's a refin it could be hiding issues.

good luck,
John

Sometimes the tops on the ES175s, ES295s, ES5s/Switchmasters, etc., collapse in the middle. It's a bracing issue. One not-uncommon side affect is that the bridge gets pulled forward and slightly up and sometimes with a twist. It can be fixed.

Here's a LPF link: https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?133895-ES-archtop-sag

Here's an external link: http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Structural/ES175Top/es175top.html

marshall1987 · Mar 7, 2020

Nice guitar. Do you know the particulars regarding the gold refinish? Contact the person you got the guitar from. You may be able to glean more information about any prior issues that could be contributing to the problems you are experiencing.

It wasn't clear....is the guitar yours? If so, I would take it to a qualified guitar repairman. These old vintage Gibson hollowbody guitars can sometimes manifest an assortment of structural issues, just like any old acoustic guitar, arch top or flat top. Especially if previous owners used medium or heavy gauge strings.

It's not uncommon for old acoustic guitars to need a neck reset, and perhaps other repairs.

renderit · Mar 7, 2020

First: I am not a qualified luthier but,

Looks like the truss rod could be tightened.

Too much relief.

Straightening MIGHT fix all the problems.

But it WILL show the base dive if it's there...

Crank it down a half turn, give it a day and do it again.

marshall1987 · Mar 7, 2020

If you are presently using strings heavier than 10-46, recommend for now you go back to a string gauge no heavier than 10s.

tzurby · Mar 17, 2020

Thanks all for your comments.

Re marshall1987:
Yes, the guitar is mine. I bought it about 15 years ago... Cannot reach the seller.
I use 10-46 strings.

Re renderit:
The action is very good (in the 12th fret): 0,2mm. Gibson stock is 0,3mm (.012").

All in all, playing the guitar is not that bad. Just a bit high in the higher registeres. My concern was more whether the way the neck is set into the body is original. Most probably, the guitar has the sunken top issue, but only slightly. Currently, I do not consider a neck rest.

Wilko · Mar 17, 2020

From those pics it look like the neck have been broken at the heel and repaired? The top is likely fine as if it failed the bridge would need to be raised to compensate.

renderit · Mar 18, 2020

I am looking at the fourth pic down where you are sighting on the side of the neck.

There is enough bow that I would try running it straight.

If it will.

But if you don't see it that way that's fine.

I understand it may be within 'spec'.

On more than a few the spec is not acceptable.

I have had at least 10 personal Gibsons through the years where running ANY bow made them less than acceptable and straightening it to perfectly flat fixed all the problems with TP heights etc.

sonar · Apr 13, 2020

I would probably wrap your head around the idea of a neck reset. I'm not there for a visual inspection, but I don't see a setup fix with the supplied pics, and there's always the potential risk that it will get worse if not addressed. Obviously don't take the interwebz as your primary source of advice, but more than likely neck work is in that guitar's future.

It's not that unusual for a 70-year-old guitar to need neck work. You see it with Gibson, Martin, Gretsch (especially Gretsch) and many others. Imo, it's a (potential) cost of admission when owning and preserving these wonderful instruments.

1953 ES-295 - Why is this action so high?

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