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My date with "Alberta" (0 0285)

goldtop0

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,937
That's great thanks Dr and as you say, to some that 5% makes all the difference.
It's like vintage wine and other older vs newer comparisons:2cool



I just dig those neck grooves in Alberta........that's mojo right there.
 
K

Kim R

Guest
Spending hands-on time with the old guitars is pretty special and very enlightening, too.

Thanks for the thread and the photos!
 

shred

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2003
Messages
4,667
Obviously you're biased, but it looks like your Reissue held up pretty well against the real thing...
 

pit_s_xroad

Active member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
1,403
Thanks a lot for this great report... and the nice pictures... this guitar is awesome... :3zone

Greets
PIT... :salude
 

Rev Flamin Harry

New member
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
1
I owned and performed with Alberta for over 30 years. If anyone has any questions I'll try and answer them Flamin Harry
 

ChevChelios

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
775
Harry! Very cool to have you here. And thanks for chiming in ...

Yes, I do have a question: What is the explanation for the pretty hefty grooves on the back of the neck? These were/are pretty impressive ...
 

zorglub!

Burst Detective!
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
5,230
I owned and performed with Alberta for over 30 years. If anyone has any questions I'll try and answer them Flamin Harry

Welcome to the forum! Great to have you here... So I guess we would all love to hear the history of the guitar, how and when did you find it, how was playing it for 30 years, and of course why the dice...! :dude:
 

RF91

New member
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
20
Wow this place is unreal. We are talking about this guitar and the the guy who played it for 30 years and gave it it's mojo pops in to tell us all about it. Pray tell and welcome
 

lpnv59

All Access/Backstage Pass
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
10,725
I owned and performed with Alberta for over 30 years. If anyone has any questions I'll try and answer them Flamin Harry

Hey cool to see you here Harry. I remember when you had it for sale on your site years ago. So whats the story on the name "Alberta", and what did you replace her with?? :salude
 

ChevChelios

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
775
As far as I know - re. the story AFTER Harry sold Alberta to ECG - is that they asked $175k for her and eventually sold her to a Japanese collector. No more rockin' for Alberta, I'm afraid ...

I love how the ABR-1 is worn down where the hand touches it. Harry really must have played this beauty A LOT!
 

tonyfrancis

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
113
One of my all time favorite Bursts! This is a wonderful forum to have owners of these amazing guitars here to discuss them.
 

abracadaben

Active member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
230
very nice guitar and cool article. did you consider however that this particular burst might be in the awesome but not stellar range?

very nice pics. looks stunning guitar. sound clips? :D
 

ChevChelios

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
775
Thanks!

Sure, I did consider that. I've played some fine instruments in my life and this one was definitely a very nice one. But - seriously - for ME, I think in a blind test (only the sound), I would have chosen the R8. Others that listened to the almost 80 min of recorded sound material, immediately chose the burst over the R8.

Soundclips can be found in the original (German) version of the article (I think the link is somewhere in the first post).

PS: I really hope that Harry will find his way back here and illuminate us with detailed info.
 

abracadaben

Active member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
230
Thanks!

Sure, I did consider that. I've played some fine instruments in my life and this one was definitely a very nice one. But - seriously - for ME, I think in a blind test (only the sound), I would have chosen the R8. Others that listened to the almost 80 min of recorded sound material, immediately chose the burst over the R8.

Soundclips can be found in the original (German) version of the article (I think the link is somewhere in the first post).

PS: I really hope that Harry will find his way back here and illuminate us with detailed info.

mmm I heard the sound clip. kinda hard to get an idea. for sure for me the best tone of all the sample is that last piece, very end of the burst OD.

BTW He should replace that bridge tone knob with a vintage one ;-) Washers gone too?
 
Last edited:

tsm1964

New member
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Messages
2
I watched Flamin Harry play may a gig on Alberta. The guitar was named after Albert King. Harry played her with a Bigsby tremolo, but never really used it. Also he kept the original PAF's in storage for safe keeping and had a different set of humbuckers in her when I watched him play in the 80's. They played many a wild show together. One of the most memorable was on Halloween night 1983. Harry was playing a tiny club in New Hope Pennsylania called John and Peter's. There's no dance floor, just booths right against the stage rail. Around midnight a man wearing a Ben Franklin mask in one of the front booths jumped over the rail onto the stage and pulled off his mask. It was Harry's good friend George Thorogood. They handed him a guitar, the owner locked the doors, and George, Harry and Alberta tore that place up. They finished at about three in the morning, Harry and George facing each other on their knees, leaning way back fanning their guitars with the crow going insane. Alberta was a well rocked guitar.


Okay, here’s the English (and radically shortened) version of the original “Holy grail oder holy crap?” article I wrote for the German Musikerboard.de forum a couple weeks ago.

Recently, I published an article on the MB forum that dealt with upgrades to enhance the sonic and practical features of a Les Paul. People seem to have liked it quite a bit so I got asked to write another one. Being a Les Paul-maniac myself, I finally decided that it would be cool to do a comparison of a superb Gibson Historic Les Paul (my 2002 R8) with an original Les Paul from the glorious years 58-60. The main reason to do that was because it is almost impossible to get your hands on an original in Germany, so Les Paul fans eventually have to settle for articles and stories by people that have access to these most precious guitars.

Luckily, my friend Jay (the founder and owner) of Emerald City Guitars in Seattle owns two original Les Pauls and was kind enough to let me sit in with his beautiful early 1960 Standard. So I ended up engrossing half of his store with my Historic, recording tools, an old-fashioned notebook (yeah, sheets of paper, a pen … vintage-style, you name it!), a wonderful blackface Fender Vibrolux … and Alberta - serial number 0 0285 and a lot of stories to tell.

P1010399mb.jpg


Wow, this baby definitely had seen numerous stages, had gone through several beer showers (probably including the bottles), and – most important of all – had been rocked pretty hard in the last 52 years of her life. The red is almost completely gone, the color’s somewhere between teaburst and amber. The whole guitar is covered with dings and dongs, a previously installed Bigsby has left some distinctive scars (now it is re-converted to the original tailpiece), and some parts had been lost and changed over the years. A note aside: even though the top shows a dominant fading, there’s hardly any super-obvious weather checking (as found very often on aged reissues).

And who is the guy who rocked this guitar for years and years on stage and named her Alberta after all? His name is Flamin’ Harry McGonigal. A little Google search helped me as a Westcoast guy and revealed that Harry must have been (or probably still is) a big shot in the Eastcoast blues rock circuit. Rock ‘n’ Roll rowdy George Thorogood even called him the „most underrated guitar player in North America“.

1Flamin-Harry1.jpg

Flamin' Harry in action.

Harry must’ve loved heavy rings on his left hand and blues scale in A minor, since the back of the neck shows impressive grooves from the 5th to the 8th fret. When Joe Bonamassa (probably on his pursuit to one day own the biggest collection of bursts) was checking out Alberta recently, first thing he said was: “I’d have these grooves filled up immediately!” And Joe wasn’t the only guy who left some star-DNA on this guitar. Players like Rev. Billy G., Santana, John Mayer (who?), and others already played this particular Les Paul. No need to say that I was somewhat starstruck when Jay handed over Alberta and left me (and Wolfe Macleod – founder and mastermind of Wolfetone pickups) alone in the room.

Just a short note on my R8: It’s a particularly nice model (the best Historic I’ve ever put hands on) with several upgrades (correct 57s wiring, Cornell Dubilier Grey Tiger caps, Wolfetone Marshallhead MkII (bridge) and Dr. Vintage (neck) humbuckers, etc.).

Now to the evaluation: First (as I always do when I test a guitar) I check the unplugged sound of Alberta, and instantly felt sort of disappointed - probably because of the huge expectations that are ultimately coupled to the mystic sound of the holy grail of electric guitars. The sound was very airy, thin, almost fragile, there was not much bass present, and sustain was not on the huge side. On the other hand, playing-wise, this guitar played like butter! Grooves in the neck? Heck, yeah! I felt them, but they really didn’t influence my playing at all. The neck shape was very interesting, too, since it was quite different compared to some necks on current R0 models that I played recently. Alberta’s neck almost has a soft v-shape, which felt fantastic. Gibson should scan this neck and use the dimensions sometime!

P1010396mb.jpg


However, we were not particularly impressed by the unplugged sound and decided to plug that baby in (hey, it’s an electric guitar - it is meant to be played plugged into a nice amp!) … and good lord! Suddenly, the room was filled with the most beautiful, transparent, dynamic, and sweet sound one could imagine. These PAFs really injected some unexplainable magic into Alberta and literally woke the old lady up! Although the pickups show relatively high readings (8.6 for the neck and 8.7 for the bridge) the sound was clear and strong, but didn’t push the Fender preamp into overdrive. The tone was more focused on a broad range of mids rather than on bass, the highs were abundant, but not piercing – the sound of a good old Telecaster bridge pickup instantly came to my mind (think Zep). Suddenly, all these explanations of THE PAF sound that I knew from the literature made sense. “Aha, you really have to hear it to understand the hype.” I’m afraid that’s how it is …

Then I plugged in my R8 (which sounded fuller, sustainedlonger , and had a much broader frequency range acoustically compared to the 60s) into the Fender, stroke the first chord … followed by a minute of complete speachlessness. Wolfe and I looked at each other, none of us believing how incredibly close those two guitars sounded. Of course, the acoustic features of the R8 were transformed beautifully into the electric sound, which means that the R8 (named Naomi, by the way) sounded fuller, sustained longer. But the transparency and dynamics were also there. Probably not as magical as with the real PAFs, but still … very, very close. Jay calls these extremely fine differences in clarity and touch response the “expensive 5%”. We all know that from a certain (price-)point on, the quality of the sound does not increase linear with the money you have to pay to get there. And this is exactly, what the “expensive 5%” mean. Monster players like Joe Bonamassa care about these 5%. They want to hear this tiny little extra that you cannot get from other (very good, though) guitars.

To name it – the 5% difference between these two guitars costs 170k dollars! Those are EXPENSIVE 5%. Does the ambitious, but not really dedicated guitar player need to pay this premium? Obviously not! But for some players, these percents are the ones that count. So is it worth it? To some? Hell, sure it is. If I had the resources, I’d happily throw bundles of dollar bills at Jay until he gives up. Since I'm not in a position to do that, I was rather happy that this test also showed that a current Historic model can reproduce the sound of the glorious Les Pauls as close as it gets.

P1010397mb.jpg


I hope that Alberta finds her way into the hands of a player who rocks the heck outta her! That’s what she knows, that’s what she does best. Don’t let her sit in a stand for the rest of her life!

That was pretty much it … even though it’s not a 1:1 translation, I think it captures well what (Wolfe and) I felt on that day.


Here's the link to the German version of the article: http://www.musiker-board.de/gibson-e-git/483904-gibson-les-paul-1960-holy-grail-oder-holy-crap.html
 

tsm1964

New member
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Messages
2
I watched Flamin Harry play many a gig on Alberta. The guitar was named after Albert King. Harry played her with a Bigsby tremolo, but never really used it. Also he kept the original PAF's in storage for safe keeping and had a different set of humbuckers in her when I watched him play in the 80's. They played many a wild show together. One of the most memorable was on Halloween night 1983. Harry was playing a tiny club in New Hope Pennsylania called John and Peter's. There's no dance floor, just booths right against the stage rail. Around midnight a man wearing a Ben Franklin mask in one of the front booths jumped over the rail onto the stage and pulled off his mask. It was Harry's good friend George Thorogood. They handed him a guitar, the owner locked the doors, and George, Harry and Alberta tore that place up. They finished at about three in the morning, Harry and George facing each other on their knees, leaning way back fanning their guitars with the crow going insane. Alberta was a well rocked guitar.


Okay, here’s the English (and radically shortened) version of the original “Holy grail oder holy crap?” article I wrote for the German Musikerboard.de forum a couple weeks ago.

Recently, I published an article on the MB forum that dealt with upgrades to enhance the sonic and practical features of a Les Paul. People seem to have liked it quite a bit so I got asked to write another one. Being a Les Paul-maniac myself, I finally decided that it would be cool to do a comparison of a superb Gibson Historic Les Paul (my 2002 R8) with an original Les Paul from the glorious years 58-60. The main reason to do that was because it is almost impossible to get your hands on an original in Germany, so Les Paul fans eventually have to settle for articles and stories by people that have access to these most precious guitars.

Luckily, my friend Jay (the founder and owner) of Emerald City Guitars in Seattle owns two original Les Pauls and was kind enough to let me sit in with his beautiful early 1960 Standard. So I ended up engrossing half of his store with my Historic, recording tools, an old-fashioned notebook (yeah, sheets of paper, a pen … vintage-style, you name it!), a wonderful blackface Fender Vibrolux … and Alberta - serial number 0 0285 and a lot of stories to tell.

P1010399mb.jpg


Wow, this baby definitely had seen numerous stages, had gone through several beer showers (probably including the bottles), and – most important of all – had been rocked pretty hard in the last 52 years of her life. The red is almost completely gone, the color’s somewhere between teaburst and amber. The whole guitar is covered with dings and dongs, a previously installed Bigsby has left some distinctive scars (now it is re-converted to the original tailpiece), and some parts had been lost and changed over the years. A note aside: even though the top shows a dominant fading, there’s hardly any super-obvious weather checking (as found very often on aged reissues).

And who is the guy who rocked this guitar for years and years on stage and named her Alberta after all? His name is Flamin’ Harry McGonigal. A little Google search helped me as a Westcoast guy and revealed that Harry must have been (or probably still is) a big shot in the Eastcoast blues rock circuit. Rock ‘n’ Roll rowdy George Thorogood even called him the „most underrated guitar player in North America“.

1Flamin-Harry1.jpg

Flamin' Harry in action.

Harry must’ve loved heavy rings on his left hand and blues scale in A minor, since the back of the neck shows impressive grooves from the 5th to the 8th fret. When Joe Bonamassa (probably on his pursuit to one day own the biggest collection of bursts) was checking out Alberta recently, first thing he said was: “I’d have these grooves filled up immediately!” And Joe wasn’t the only guy who left some star-DNA on this guitar. Players like Rev. Billy G., Santana, John Mayer (who?), and others already played this particular Les Paul. No need to say that I was somewhat starstruck when Jay handed over Alberta and left me (and Wolfe Macleod – founder and mastermind of Wolfetone pickups) alone in the room.

Just a short note on my R8: It’s a particularly nice model (the best Historic I’ve ever put hands on) with several upgrades (correct 57s wiring, Cornell Dubilier Grey Tiger caps, Wolfetone Marshallhead MkII (bridge) and Dr. Vintage (neck) humbuckers, etc.).

Now to the evaluation: First (as I always do when I test a guitar) I check the unplugged sound of Alberta, and instantly felt sort of disappointed - probably because of the huge expectations that are ultimately coupled to the mystic sound of the holy grail of electric guitars. The sound was very airy, thin, almost fragile, there was not much bass present, and sustain was not on the huge side. On the other hand, playing-wise, this guitar played like butter! Grooves in the neck? Heck, yeah! I felt them, but they really didn’t influence my playing at all. The neck shape was very interesting, too, since it was quite different compared to some necks on current R0 models that I played recently. Alberta’s neck almost has a soft v-shape, which felt fantastic. Gibson should scan this neck and use the dimensions sometime!

P1010396mb.jpg


However, we were not particularly impressed by the unplugged sound and decided to plug that baby in (hey, it’s an electric guitar - it is meant to be played plugged into a nice amp!) … and good lord! Suddenly, the room was filled with the most beautiful, transparent, dynamic, and sweet sound one could imagine. These PAFs really injected some unexplainable magic into Alberta and literally woke the old lady up! Although the pickups show relatively high readings (8.6 for the neck and 8.7 for the bridge) the sound was clear and strong, but didn’t push the Fender preamp into overdrive. The tone was more focused on a broad range of mids rather than on bass, the highs were abundant, but not piercing – the sound of a good old Telecaster bridge pickup instantly came to my mind (think Zep). Suddenly, all these explanations of THE PAF sound that I knew from the literature made sense. “Aha, you really have to hear it to understand the hype.” I’m afraid that’s how it is …

Then I plugged in my R8 (which sounded fuller, sustainedlonger , and had a much broader frequency range acoustically compared to the 60s) into the Fender, stroke the first chord … followed by a minute of complete speachlessness. Wolfe and I looked at each other, none of us believing how incredibly close those two guitars sounded. Of course, the acoustic features of the R8 were transformed beautifully into the electric sound, which means that the R8 (named Naomi, by the way) sounded fuller, sustained longer. But the transparency and dynamics were also there. Probably not as magical as with the real PAFs, but still … very, very close. Jay calls these extremely fine differences in clarity and touch response the “expensive 5%”. We all know that from a certain (price-)point on, the quality of the sound does not increase linear with the money you have to pay to get there. And this is exactly, what the “expensive 5%” mean. Monster players like Joe Bonamassa care about these 5%. They want to hear this tiny little extra that you cannot get from other (very good, though) guitars.

To name it – the 5% difference between these two guitars costs 170k dollars! Those are EXPENSIVE 5%. Does the ambitious, but not really dedicated guitar player need to pay this premium? Obviously not! But for some players, these percents are the ones that count. So is it worth it? To some? Hell, sure it is. If I had the resources, I’d happily throw bundles of dollar bills at Jay until he gives up. Since I'm not in a position to do that, I was rather happy that this test also showed that a current Historic model can reproduce the sound of the glorious Les Pauls as close as it gets.

P1010397mb.jpg


I hope that Alberta finds her way into the hands of a player who rocks the heck outta her! That’s what she knows, that’s what she does best. Don’t let her sit in a stand for the rest of her life!

That was pretty much it … even though it’s not a 1:1 translation, I think it captures well what (Wolfe and) I felt on that day.


Here's the link to the German version of the article: http://www.musiker-board.de/gibson-e-git/483904-gibson-les-paul-1960-holy-grail-oder-holy-crap.html
 
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