Historic Makeover of 2014 R8

ff1337 · May 29, 2016

shoehorn_hands said:
Just woke up to an email from Kim. He is working on a new fretboard with unshrunken inlays. I have to admit, I'm actually really getting excited to see how this turns out.

I assure you he's going to do right by you. I bought a retrospect part from him and there was an issue with it. I contacted him and he rectified it instantly. Your guitar will come out great.

Big Al · May 29, 2016

57LPJay said:
I think we have this idea that the originals were perfectly finished like the modern mass produced instruments. However, the only "vintage" instrument I own is a '62 Strat, and it doesn't resemble the newer more modern Strats as far as color goes. The sunburst pattern differs wildly from instrument to instrument, and that is without the hassle of binding them and the carving of the top and everything that goes into the Les Paul. After seeing originals (not in new form mind you) I can say that imperfections abound on the ones I have seen. But hey, when each one is hand made, it puts the whole human error into play. My HM is one of their "closet classic" as far as aging goes. But I have had nothing but great communication with Kim, any questions I had, he answered. It might not have been right away, but he got to it. My experience was great, and our guitars were there at the same time. I do know that Kim had said that they were cutting down on the pictures and stuff like that, as they were spending a large portion of their time taking pics on top of doing the work, so I understood that. But hopefully the OP will get the guitar back and give it a chance. I think he'll be happy with the sound that comes from it. Hopefully the selling it thing is just frustration manifested, which I understand.

Very false. In the 50's Gibsons were mass produced in a factory and had 100% quality control. This notion I keep seeing repeated about hand made, craftsman guitars is bullshit. I've been to the old Gibson Plant in Kalamazoo and saw exactly how they ran it and how the instruments were made. They were modern massed produced high quality musical instruments.

57LPJay · May 29, 2016

Big Al said:
Very false. In the 50's Gibsons were mass produced in a factory and had 100% quality control. This notion I keep seeing repeated about hand made, craftsman guitars is bullshit. I've been to the old Gibson Plant in Kalamazoo and saw exactly how they ran it and how the instruments were made. They were modern massed produced high quality musical instruments.

That's a cool story bro, but I worked at Gibson for a short time. Some of the old timers were still around in those days, and they came to the Nashville plant and we got to chat it up with them. Now I worked in QC, so we strung the guitars, tuned them and looked for any imperfection to send it back to be fixed. When those old guys came around, they said they didn't have anything close to what we were doing there. Hence the reason the cut out from any given "golden era" LP can be compared to another, and the cut can be wildly different. So if you are telling me that that is 100% quality control, then our idea of 100% is very different. Same with the pickups, there were no differentiation of neck vs bridge, it was a box of pickups that little old ladies pulled from a box and soldered them into the guitars. I do not have some ideal that there were luthiers hand crafting each instrument with lathes and chisels, but QC was much more of a loose term back then.

Big Al · May 29, 2016

57LPJay said:
That's a cool story bro, but I worked at Gibson for a short time. Some of the old timers were still around in those days, and they came to the Nashville plant and we got to chat it up with them. Now I worked in QC, so we strung the guitars, tuned them and looked for any imperfection to send it back to be fixed. When those old guys came around, they said they didn't have anything close to what we were doing there. Hence the reason the cut out from any given "golden era" LP can be compared to another, and the cut can be wildly different. So if you are telling me that that is 100% quality control, then our idea of 100% is very different. Same with the pickups, there were no differentiation of neck vs bridge, it was a box of pickups that little old ladies pulled from a box and soldered them into the guitars. I do not have some ideal that there were luthiers hand crafting each instrument with lathes and chisels, but QC was much more of a loose term back then.

When I was there the QC was done at each step of the manufacture. Before the guitar went to the next stage it was inspected. Every guitar was inspected before shipping as opposed to Fenders which did random lot samples. The differences in top carve or neck profile was due to hand sanding with that big ol sander belt that was used. I was told in the 70's by old timers that they could tell who had sanded the top or profiled the neck based on how it was done.

What I was responding to, and it is something I see all the time here, is that the 50's Gibsons were hand made by luthiers. This is not accurate as at the time Gibson was a fully functional modern production factory. Individual processes where done by people that only did that process. Assembly line high quality mass production. Some of the machines have changed but for the most part Gibson guitars are made as well as they ever did and maybe more consistently so. It is hard to argue about the effects of CNC machining and tighter controlled manufacturing in present day Gibson.

I haven't seen a well cared for clean original with any of the issues you cite. I was at Kalamazoo Gibson in the 70's. I went with Seymour Duncan and we met a bunch of the original workers from the 50's. I saw how the plant was run and saw the manufacturing process from white wood to finished product. I am not understanding the term cut out. Is that a term for rejected pieces or something else?

I wasn't aware of many 50's workers moving to Nashville. When I was at the Custom shop in the early oughts there were none.

57LPJay · May 30, 2016

Big Al said:
When I was there the QC was done at each step of the manufacture. Before the guitar went to the next stage it was inspected. Every guitar was inspected before shipping as opposed to Fenders which did random lot samples. The differences in top carve or neck profile was due to hand sanding with that big ol sander belt that was used. I was told in the 70's by old timers that they could tell who had sanded the top or profiled the neck based on how it was done.

What I was responding to, and it is something I see all the time here, is that the 50's Gibsons were hand made by luthiers. This is not accurate as at the time Gibson was a fully functional modern production factory. Individual processes where done by people that only did that process. Assembly line high quality mass production. Some of the machines have changed but for the most part Gibson guitars are made as well as they ever did and maybe more consistently so. It is hard to argue about the effects of CNC machining and tighter controlled manufacturing in present day Gibson.

I haven't seen a well cared for clean original with any of the issues you cite. I was at Kalamazoo Gibson in the 70's. I went with Seymour Duncan and we met a bunch of the original workers from the 50's. I saw how the plant was run and saw the manufacturing process from white wood to finished product. I am not understanding the term cut out. Is that a term for rejected pieces or something else?

I wasn't aware of many 50's workers moving to Nashville. When I was at the Custom shop in the early oughts there were none.

I agree wholly with your statement about them not being "handmade" but there were "imperfections" I the 50's that probably wouldn't make it out today. They weren't working in Nashville, they trotted some old timers to visit the Nashville operation one time while I was working there, 98, maybe 99. I didn't stay long as is the usual for folks who work for Henry. But for the most part, I agree with your sentiment. The thought that little luthiers hand built those is ludicrous.

alnico59 · May 30, 2016

57LPJay said:
Hence the reason the cut out from any given "golden era" LP can be compared to another, and the cut can be wildly different. , it waSo if you are telling me that that is 100% quality control, then our idea of 100% is very different.

Big Al said:
I am not understanding the term cut out. Is that a term for rejected pieces or something else?

I think he's referring to the horn when he's says "cut out". I've seen some examples, originals and early ri's, that differ in sharpness at the tip.

garywright · May 30, 2016

Big Al said:
Very false. In the 50's Gibsons were mass produced in a factory and had 100% quality control. This notion I keep seeing repeated about hand made, craftsman guitars is bullshit. I've been to the old Gibson Plant in Kalamazoo and saw exactly how they ran it and how the instruments were made. They were modern massed produced high quality musical instruments.

Al ..in 1959 you were four years old ...what the fuck were you doing in a Gibson plant besides poopin in your diaper :hee

garywright · May 30, 2016

:salude

Marcel M · Jun 21, 2016

Hey Shoehorn, any updates? I'm quite curious of your thoughts on the guitar if you've gotten it back yet, and if you care to share.

shoehorn_hands · Jun 22, 2016

Marcel M said:
Hey Shoehorn, any updates? I'm quite curious of your thoughts on the guitar if you've gotten it back yet, and if you care to share.

Hey Marcel!
Actually just got some updated pics this morning. My fretboard is now complete. Got an email from Ken a couple weeks ago asking about my preference for side dot inlays (it was a concern I voiced before) and also letting me know that they had found some rosewood stock from another supplier which they hand picked to use for my board. Anyway, woke up to the new pics this morning:

Marcel M · Jun 22, 2016

shoehorn_hands said:
Hey Marcel!
Actually just got some updated pics this morning. My fretboard is now complete. Got an email from Ken a couple weeks ago asking about my preference for side dot inlays (it was a concern I voiced before) and also letting me know that they had found some rosewood stock from another supplier which they hand picked to use for my board. Anyway, woke up to the new pics this morning: View attachment 4408 View attachment 4407

Looking good!

shoehorn_hands · Dec 6, 2016

Well, got an email about a month ago saying it was almost finished. Getting pretty excited to see how it turns out! It's been murder waiting for it to get back!

Ronsonman · Dec 6, 2016

shoehorn_hands said:
Well, got an email about a month ago saying it was almost finished. Getting pretty excited to see how it turns out! It's been murder waiting for it to get back!

I talked to Kim on the phone last week. I was going to send my 2012 R8 in for the works due to the 2 ply neck.
Just this weekend I managed to get a decent trade-in for a 2016 R9 instead.

When I first started reading your thread I was kicking myself for not doing the makeover. I don't think my
R9 is worth almost 6k in my opinion. But after I saw what happened to you, I lost all regrets. I also would be in a perpetual state of high anxiety if that happened to me.
Anybody would get like that in the same situation. Best of luck with the 2nd remake.

EdwardR9 · Dec 9, 2016

Ronsonman said:
I talked to Kim on the phone last week. I was going to send my 2012 R8 in for the works due to the 2 ply neck.
Just this weekend I managed to get a decent trade-in for a 2016 R9 instead.

When I first started reading your thread I was kicking myself for not doing the makeover. I don't think my
R9 is worth almost 6k in my opinion. But after I saw what happened to you, I lost all regrets. I also would be in a perpetual state of high anxiety if that happened to me.
Anybody would get like that in the same situation. Best of luck with the 2nd remake.

Just the fingerboard was two piece. As for business, you can get backed logged and take on more work than you can handle. HM has a stellar reputation to uphold so I am sure they will rectify the problem. I can attest that Kim is a wonderful guy, but he does have 10 irons in the fire so to speak. I can't personally condemn HM for one complaint or jump on the bash wagon.

Ronsonman · Dec 10, 2016

EdwardR9 said:
Just the fingerboard was two piece. As for business, you can get backed logged and take on more work than you can handle. HM has a stellar reputation to uphold so I am sure they will rectify the problem. I can attest that Kim is a wonderful guy, but he does have 10 irons in the fire so to speak. I can't personally condemn HM for one complaint or jump on the bash wagon.

Well......if there had been some kind of explanation given for the misshap, I might agree. But charging $4,000
is not exactly charity work? And we are all entightled to our own viewpoints, correct?

Historic Makeover of 2014 R8

ff1337

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Big Al

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57LPJay

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Big Al

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57LPJay

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alnico59

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garywright

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garywright

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Marcel M

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shoehorn_hands

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Marcel M

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shoehorn_hands

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Ronsonman

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EdwardR9

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