Why is a volute undesirable?

I understand that the original Les Pauls and SGs didn't use a volute, but aside from maintaining "tradition", why are volutes undesirable? It seems like a great idea to increase the mass of wood for perhaps strength and maybe some sustain as well?

Thanks in advance for the education - I've been curious for some time!

I dont think its necessarily the volute that is the issue. I have liked all the voluted guitars Ive played, but the current trend is towards fatter necks which voluted guitars do not have. Also, for a time Gibson was using maple necks with volutes which are not everyones favorite wood.

It's not that a volute is undesirable, per say. It's just that during the time that Gibson was making guitars with volutes, that production was considered way off specs from what the LP was intended to be. Usually, those Gibson LP's also have laminated bodies, and other factors that take it further away from original specs.

Some people like those era Gibsons, (Norlin Era), but many do not like them.
You must choose based on your personal desires for what you like in a Gibson LP and not be bothered by what others like or dislike.

in other words the volute is a tell tale sign that it's other aspects may be less than desirable?

Thanks for the info. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't an inherent "problem" with the volute itself. I totally understand that the wood consistencies and choices used in the '70s were less-than-ideal. I've played some monster weight guitars from that era! But nice to know that the volute in and of itself is "o.k." otherwise.

I have a very specific and complex question:

What's a volute?

thanks

Einstein

Aside from being a departure from spec. (even though it was intended as an improvement), the "problem" with the volute was that it was placed at the wrong place in the wrist. Its placement supposedly weakened the (fulcrum) area. True or not, I never had a problem with them or 3 piece maple necks.

rafael,
a volute is an extra "bump" on the back of a neck, usually right at the nut. Martin guitars have them (or did in the 80's). they use a diamond looking piece of wood that is not "removed" in neck shaping.

but, it's a bump, that adds a little extra strength in that most vulnerable area of the neck (the headstock/neck transition) by adding thickness.

Non-volute guitars have no extra bump...ie, a smooth transition from back of neck to back of headstock.

when you finally see a volute, you'll know. It's not tough to see or notice... just look for any bump. My 74 has it...my '75 didn't.

I heard that gibson's volute was not in the exact right spot to do the intended purpose (help stop neck breaks)...They put it a little too far toward the tip of the headstock... as my '74 is a testament. Well...granted, it kept the headstock from breaking clean off...but it sure didn't stop a break from occurring.

This ebay auction is for a '73. The volute is visible in the picture of the guitar face down, AND barely visible in the back of headstock shot.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1973-Gi...346213935QQcategoryZ33040QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

this one is a severe volute...check the back of headstock shot.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-GIBSON-LES...344923871QQcategoryZ38086QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks... I've been learning and learning here...

rock on

Rafa

I actually think a volute helps in the strength dept, though if you drop a Lester on its neck, it really won't matter.

In which year they stopped making guitars with volute? 1983 or so?

If you get a guitar without a volute, don't you have to walk back to the amp everytime you want to turn it down?

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-I know, I know :toobad No sleep

I do volute to my projects. I don't see any reason why I should not. :ahem

I find it uncomfortable, so I prefer not to have it there.

Not so sure if its just an option of preferrence beside giving the certain neck size a strenght it needs. But i do say it sure looks nice on a Acoustic specially the diamond shaped ones.Strenght/Looks.??

Peace!!!:salude

Robert Bennedetto says in his archtop guitar making book that volutes dont really help strengthen that area of the guitar. I dont really see how about a 1/4" of wood will keep a headstock from coming off or cracking from any situation that would create cracking or breaking in a non volute guitar.

Chlsmo said:

Robert Bennedetto says in his archtop guitar making book that volutes dont really help strengthen that area of the guitar. I dont really see how about a 1/4" of wood will keep a headstock from coming off or cracking from any situation that would create cracking or breaking in a non volute guitar.

Click to expand...

More wood, more strenght. There is relatively large amount of wood missing in critical area of neck becouse of the truss rodd pocket. With large volute thickness of wood in that area will increase radically. More than can be seen from outside. :jim

rays44 has it right IMHO-
howver

a volute is not a telltale sign of poor quality at all-

a volute is not 'original' the lp design-therefore its a departure and 'bad'

secondly it is associated with norlin, also 'bad'

remember that some of the norlin changes were implemented to reduce warranty work-three piece necks are less likely to twist, maple necks are even sturdier than mahogany, volute for headstocks breaks, pancake body (ie crossbanding)-god knows why other than it was standard for the furniture industry-some speculate it took smaller wood blanks and saved costs-yet in labor who knows if there was a saving? typically this would strenghten and reduced warpage on green wood.

but in fact on those LPs i have with volutes (3), i cant feel a difference, and im really pleased with these particular norlins (here we go again-yes some norlins are indeed great)-

the interesting part to me is that the original LPs had the neck grain running parrallel to the headstock face-all te way down the neck-this menat that the longest grain was in place at the neck for added strength-

later the grain (and still currently as far as i can tell from my own historics and later production guitars) runs parallel to the fingerboard-so you get shorter grain at the neck and this is supposedly weaker-so-someone used the volute to compensate?

i may be wrong but i recall volutes being used on some german guitars-but the question is whether these pre-dated norlins adaptation or were a copy cat-i remember these being used on other guitars in this era especially twelve strings-the old NBN company of Longlmont CO(which John Fahey favored for a while-and who i visited when i was leanring to build guitars-had a volute like a tunnel entrance-possibly 1.5 inches in depth or more!)-and even Martin retains the diamond behind its nut on many of its models -not because its traditional but also because its added a bit of extra strength

volutes vary greatly in size on the gibbys ive seen-early ones were merely "bimps"-quite small-ive seen some on L-5s, and LPs from either the late 70's which were really large-